Thinking about getting a Leaf - Questions

[DaveinOlyWA]

I drive around the same mile per day not including errands and my monthly electricity Leaf usage is around 350K Watts a month, so be very careful on the electricity tariff you select from your provider, this Leaf might cost you more than a regular gas car with 40 MPG, my recommendation is do the math before going electric. In my case I have a stayhome wife with 4 kids (we use airconditioner iand central gas furnace with electric flower), I was paying to charge the LEAF .34 cents per kilowatt = $119 a month to travel 1,300 miles, so compare to a gas car 1.300 / 40 Mpg = 32.5 gallons at 3.85 =$125 per month.

what kind of gasser are you driving?

 

[vgonzalez]

I drive around the same mile per day not including errands and my monthly electricity Leaf usage is around 350K Watts a month, so be very careful on the electricity tariff you select from your provider, this Leaf might cost you more than a regular gas car with 40 MPG, my recommendation is do the math before going electric. In my case I have a stayhome wife with 4 kids (we use airconditioner iand central gas furnace with electric flower), I was paying to charge the LEAF .34 cents per kilowatt = $119 a month to travel 1,300 miles, so compare to a gas car 1.300 / 40 Mpg = 32.5 gallons at 3.85 =$125 per month.

what kind of gasser are you driving?

I am driving a Nissan Leaf 2011 on pg&e plan E9B at .046 per kw (off-peak usage), so now my monthly cost is $6 monthly meter charge plus 360kw at .046 cents = 16.46, so my total monthly cost is now $22.46 to drive 1,300 miles

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
By gasser, he's asking what gasoline car are you driving? No non-hybrid gasoline powered cars currently sold achieve 40 mpg combined on the EPA test (see http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=Cars&year1=2012&year2=2014&rdomsrp01=85000_0&minmsrpsel=0&maxmsrpsel=0&cbftreggasoline=Regular+Gasoline&cbftmidgasoline=Midgrade+Gasoline&cbftprmgasoline=Premium+Gasoline&cbfte85=E85&city=0&combined=40&highway=0&mpgType=0&minMPGSel=&maxMPGSel=&YearSel=2012-2014&MakeSel=&MarClassSel=&FuelTypeSel=Regular+Gasoline%2C+Midgrade+Gasoline%2C+Premium+Gasoline%2C+E85&VehTypeSel=&TranySel=&DriveTypeSel=&CylindersSel=&MpgSel=0400&sortBy=Comb&Units=&url=SearchServlet&opt=new&minmsrp=0&maxmsrp=0&minmpg=0&maxmpg=0&rowLimit=10&pageno=1&tabView=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

BTW, you've got all your units wrong. Electricity consumption is measured by utilities in kWh (kilowatt hours). At $0.34/kwh, you're into high tiers (http://www.pge.com/myhome/myaccount/charges/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

Not sure what part of CA you live in (I'm in ripoff PG&E land myself) but I don't even have AC other than a portable rolling unit that I might use on very hot days (if hits the 90s). I'm at home all the time since I'm not working right now. I have no BEV but most of my bills stay within tier 1. I sometimes end up in tier 2 during the winter since I use electric space heaters. I will admit that during the winter, I live like an Eskimo (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=261198#p261198" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

 

[planet4ever]

I am driving a Nissan Leaf 2011 on pg&e plan E9B at .046 per kw (off-peak usage), so now my monthly cost is $6 monthly meter charge plus 360kw at .046 cents = 16.46, so my total monthly cost is now $22.46 to drive 1,300 miles

Are you sure of your numbers? Your units, of course, are crazy, as cwerdna says. Everything you call kw is really kWh, and ".046 cents" is really dollars, not cents. The E9 rate schedule I have shows "winter" off-peak (which is in effect until May 1) as $0.055 per kWh for Rate B if you stay within baseline. Then it goes up to $0.0737 briefly before jumping to $0.2554 as soon as you hit 130% of baseline. Depending on where you live, winter baseline could be anywhere from about 275kWh/month to about 415kWh/month. But unless you are in territory P, S, V, or (winter only) Y you must be at least edging into tier 2.

Amazingly, E9B does give you a separate baseline amount for your LEAF, at least until the end of next year, when you are going to be forced to move to a different schedule. So for now you might, depending on territory, be able to get 360kWh for the car without exceeding baseline. Your claim of paying $0.34/kWh for the car without E9B is also possible, but only if your house use (without the car) was at least 200% of baseline. Put another way, you must have had a PG&E bill before you got the car of close to $300/month for electricity alone if not more. True?

Ray

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

^^^
By gasser, he's asking what gasoline car are you driving? No non-hybrid gasoline powered cars currently sold achieve 40 mpg combined on the EPA test (see http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=Cars&year1=2012&year2=2014&rdomsrp01=85000_0&minmsrpsel=0&maxmsrpsel=0&cbftreggasoline=Regular+Gasoline&cbftmidgasoline=Midgrade+Gasoline&cbftprmgasoline=Premium+Gasoline&cbfte85=E85&city=0&combined=40&highway=0&mpgType=0&minMPGSel=&maxMPGSel=&YearSel=2012-2014&MakeSel=&MarClassSel=&FuelTypeSel=Regular+Gasoline%2C+Midgrade+Gasoline%2C+Premium+Gasoline%2C+E85&VehTypeSel=&TranySel=&DriveTypeSel=&CylindersSel=&MpgSel=0400&sortBy=Comb&Units=&url=SearchServlet&opt=new&minmsrp=0&maxmsrp=0&minmpg=0&maxmpg=0&rowLimit=10&pageno=1&tabView=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

BTW, you've got all your units wrong. Electricity consumption is measured by utilities in kWh (kilowatt hours). At $0.34/kwh, you're into high tiers (http://www.pge.com/myhome/myaccount/charges/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

Not sure what part of CA you live in (I'm in ripoff PG&E land myself) but I don't even have AC other than a portable rolling unit that I might use on very hot days (if hits the 90s). I'm at home all the time since I'm not working right now. I have no BEV but most of my bills stay within tier 1. I sometimes end up in tier 2 during the winter since I use electric space heaters. I will admit that during the winter, I live like an Eskimo (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=261198#p261198" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

ya, what he said. i ask because i have a car that is rated at 38 mpg? i think a 2011 Yaris and right now its getting about 32 mpg but that is because its only doing short in town trips in Winter. I did drive it for work which involved pretty lengthy freeway trips loaded (3-4 people in car) and had a few tanks in the 38 mpg range but I also find that cars that get 40 mpg in Summer are lucky to get 35 mpg in Winter so definitely would not base any cost savings at that level.

 

[vgonzalez]

I am driving a Nissan Leaf 2011 on pg&e plan E9B at .046 per kw (off-peak usage), so now my monthly cost is $6 monthly meter charge plus 360kw at .046 cents = 16.46, so my total monthly cost is now $22.46 to drive 1,300 miles

Are you sure of your numbers? Your units, of course, are crazy, as cwerdna says. Everything you call kw is really kWh, and ".046 cents" is really dollars, not cents. The E9 rate schedule I have shows "winter" off-peak (which is in effect until May 1) as $0.055 per kWh for Rate B if you stay within baseline. Then it goes up to $0.0737 briefly before jumping to $0.2554 as soon as you hit 130% of baseline. Depending on where you live, winter baseline could be anywhere from about 275kWh/month to about 415kWh/month. But unless you are in territory P, S, V, or (winter only) Y you must be at least edging into tier 2.

Amazingly, E9B does give you a separate baseline amount for your LEAF, at least until the end of next year, when you are going to be forced to move to a different schedule. So for now you might, depending on territory, be able to get 360kWh for the car without exceeding baseline. Your claim of paying $0.34/kWh for the car without E9B is also possible, but only if your house use (without the car) was at least 200% of baseline. Put another way, you must have had a PG&E bill before you got the car of close to $300/month for electricity alone if not more. True?

Ray

Yes, Ray, Here in Northern California it is very easy to reach the 200% over the base line with stay home wife,4 kids, swimming pool, fish tanks, well pump, stand up freezer, I had no choice but to get a second meter pge E9B, now my monthly payment for 360kwh is $22.46 to drive 1,300 miles. The moral to the story is to be very careful going EV, make sure and analyze your current and estimate future electricity usage. Here are some pictures of the second meter install

Note: I was not going to tell the wife when she can do the laundry for all the troops or change her PGE usage vehavior, she already has her hands full, I am very lucky to have a wife that wants to stay home and take care and feed the family.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

sounds like Solar would be a great investment for you. is your house compatible with that idea?

 

[vgonzalez]

sounds like Solar would be a great investment for you. is your house compatible with that idea?

Yes, I have solar going on 5 years now, but it was only design to eliminate the 3rd pge tier, the Leaf load used to put me in the 3rd PGE tier. We still drive the Nissan Quest minivan on the weekends, I wish some one will make a reasonable low cost six passenger car, Tesla does have a six seater, but the price is not in my reach. We will just to wait.

Here is a link to my solar panel monitor status page.
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/9EDU3245" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[davewill]

Changing the outlet is the cleaner, and cheaper, solution, but you might want the adapter if you ever want to plug into someone else's dryer outlet. Also, if you file the ground blade a bit, that same 10-30 plug will fit a standard 50A/240v RV campground outlet.

Ray

Actually that mod makes the 10-30 plug fit into a 10-50. The standard RV plug is the 14-50. If you leave the neutral pin off that plug (not needed for EV charging) then it fits the 14-30, 14-50, and 14-60. These guys (http://www.evseadapters.com/products.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false sell all the adapters and the page does a good job of running down which fit what.

...and here's a nice compact chart:

 

[DaveEV]

Here is a link to my solar panel monitor status page.
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/9EDU3245" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah, you'd probably need about double the PV to keep you out of the high tiers with the LEAF.

What's up with the 1 panel that hasn't reported data in a long time and the 4 panels on the bottom which have never reported in? Do you actually have 22 or 26 panels/inverters?

 

[RLewisCA]

Just a quick update - I leased my 2013 Leaf SL on Saturday! I've driven a total of about 150 miles in the two days I've had it so far. About 25 miles on the day I picked it up from the dealer, 75 miles yesterday and 52 miles today. I'm starting to get the hang of it. I averaged 4.4 miles/KW today. I didn't reset between the first and second day, but the total up to the end of yesterday was 4.1 miles/KW.

I also ordered the EVSE upgrade, as well as the 120v adapter, and the pigtaig adapter. I bought a plug from Home Depot to match my dryer outlet. It is a 10-30, but the plug's 'prongs' are configurable - I can configure it into a 10-30 or a 10-50 depending on which 'prongs' I use that were included in the box.

Now, I just need to figure out how to wire the plug. I know it must be pretty simple, I've just never done it before. I know the white goes to neutral, but I don't know what side the other two wires should be on. I'll do some more research here on the board to figure it out. I'm hoping my EVSE upgrade is here tomorrow or Wednesday, because the level 1 charging is already getting old.

 

[davewill]

Now, I just need to figure out how to wire the plug. I know it must be pretty simple, I've just never done it before. I know the white goes to neutral, but I don't know what side the other two wires should be on. I'll do some more research here on the board to figure it out. I'm hoping my EVSE upgrade is here tomorrow or Wednesday, because the level 1 charging is already getting old.

The 10-30 adapter is a little different. The 10-30 uses two hots and a neutral, but the EVSE needs two hots and a ground. To make it work, we repurpose the neutral as ground. So, the ground (G) wire from the L6-20 goes to the neutral (W) on the 10-30. I'm not sure what the wire colors are on the pigtail, but these are the L-shaped pins on both connectors in this particular case (see below). The two hots can be connected either way, it actually makes no difference if they are swapped. The proper way is to connect X to X and Y to Y. Remember the diagrams below are looking at the receptacle.

10-30

L6-20

 

[vgonzalez]

Here is a link to my solar panel monitor status page.
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/9EDU3245" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah, you'd probably need about double the PV to keep you out of the high tiers with the LEAF.

What's up with the 1 panel that hasn't reported data in a long time and the 4 panels on the bottom which have never reported in? Do you actually have 22 or 26 panels/inverters?

The inverter was replaced on the 1 panel, the other 4 are orphans, I need to correct the graphical reporting, It is in the list of things to do, not a high priority.

 

[jeffsterm]

Ok this should be simple but I want to get it right. I just got the EVSE upgrade and need to make an adapter for a Nema 14 receptacle. The Nema 14 plug comes attached to a cord that ill atach the L6 20 receptacle to. Which of the 4 wires from the Nema 14 plug do I leave off. My understanding is I don't need the neutral. Which color is that. Green is ground and I need 2 hots. Red and what? Black or white?

 

[DaveEV]

Ok this should be simple but I want to get it right. I just got the EVSE upgrade and need to make an adapter for a Nema 14 receptacle. The Nema 14 plug comes attached to a cord that ill atach the L6 20 receptacle to. Which of the 4 wires from the Nema 14 plug do I leave off. My understanding is I don't need the neutral. Which color is that. Green is ground and I need 2 hots. Red and what? Black or white?

Look here: Need wiring help: EVSE L6-20 fem. pigtail to NEMA 14-50 plug

 

[jeffsterm]

That is the thread I needed. Thanks for the link. Glad to know I did it correctly.