gasmiser1
Well-known member
---------------------------------------------------------evnow said:
evnow- you stole my plan
To charge or not to charge?
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Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
evnow- you stole my plan
Volusiano
Well-known member
I don't have my Leaf yet (on list for month of June), but I have the Ultra Motor A2B electric bike that runs on Li Ion Manganese battey chemistry, the same kind that the Volt and Leaf runs on, I believe. Ultra Motor's manual tells me to not let the battery pack sit empty for very long, and to top it off asap after I'm done riding it. It says frequent deep discharge is bad for battery longevity. It doesn't have the 80% rule like the Leaf does, but you never know, maybe its charger is designed to have a built-in limit of 80% already so they don't bother to tell you (like how it's automatically built into the Volt because there's no range issue on the Volt. Ultra Motor can't seem to stress enough in their manual that keeping it topped off is good and letting it stay discharged is bad. I've heard from other sources the same advice for LiIon batteries that is consistent with this as well.
I've had my A2B bike for 2.5 years now and I don't have any issue with its battery so far. I top it off every night, or every chance I get.
So I would vote for A, keeping my Leaf's battery topped off every night at 80%. Nissan never said anything about trying to not charge often. They only said to charge up to 80% for longevity. Option A fully meets this requirement.
On the other hand, option B (only charge every other day) means that you have more regular deeper discharges of that battery, which I think is bad for it. It also means that you unnecessarily limit your Leaf's range on days when they're only half full, not having the option to do extra unplanned trips if needed on those days. To me, the worth of the Leaf lies in its range, ready to deliver the full range (well or 80% of it) as often as possible. So to me option B basically cuts its worth in half on those days where it can only deliver half the range due to you letting its battery capacity run down to the low end.
If Nissan had deemed it beneficial to avoid topping off frequently, they would have said so already. Instead, the only thing they say is the 80% practice. It doesn't make any sense to assume that the 80% practice implies that frequent topping off is bad for the battery. You just don't want frequent topping off to 100%, that's all. And if range has not been an issue at all with the Leaf, I'm sure Nissan would have just built-in the 80% cap and not even bother allowing owners the choice of 100% charge. But range is an issue and there's value in leaving the option for 100% charge in, so they left it in.
But if you're reading too much into what they're not saying, you may end up doing more harm than good to your battery by letting it stay discharged more often than topping it off every night. Not to mention reducing the value the Leaf can deliver by not having a full 80% range available every day in case you ever need it.
I've had my A2B bike for 2.5 years now and I don't have any issue with its battery so far. I top it off every night, or every chance I get.
So I would vote for A, keeping my Leaf's battery topped off every night at 80%. Nissan never said anything about trying to not charge often. They only said to charge up to 80% for longevity. Option A fully meets this requirement.
On the other hand, option B (only charge every other day) means that you have more regular deeper discharges of that battery, which I think is bad for it. It also means that you unnecessarily limit your Leaf's range on days when they're only half full, not having the option to do extra unplanned trips if needed on those days. To me, the worth of the Leaf lies in its range, ready to deliver the full range (well or 80% of it) as often as possible. So to me option B basically cuts its worth in half on those days where it can only deliver half the range due to you letting its battery capacity run down to the low end.
If Nissan had deemed it beneficial to avoid topping off frequently, they would have said so already. Instead, the only thing they say is the 80% practice. It doesn't make any sense to assume that the 80% practice implies that frequent topping off is bad for the battery. You just don't want frequent topping off to 100%, that's all. And if range has not been an issue at all with the Leaf, I'm sure Nissan would have just built-in the 80% cap and not even bother allowing owners the choice of 100% charge. But range is an issue and there's value in leaving the option for 100% charge in, so they left it in.
But if you're reading too much into what they're not saying, you may end up doing more harm than good to your battery by letting it stay discharged more often than topping it off every night. Not to mention reducing the value the Leaf can deliver by not having a full 80% range available every day in case you ever need it.
shawnbrig
Active member
I will be the 100% daily charge battery test dummy (ha ha ha). I have charged to 100% for the last month and plan to continue to do so. I feel the need to have 100 miles of range avaliable, at 80% charge I would be down 80 miles. For someone like myself who drives 52 miles round trip to college, I had two doctors visits (40 round trip), picked up a package from Fedex in Houston, dancing in Galveston. I feel the need to have 100 miles of range. I don't have many emergencies, when the extra trips come up I don't want to have to stop and think about if I am charged enough, I rather get them out of the way the same day.
My question is why would you advertise 100 miles of range when you recommend that your customers only charge to 80 miles of range. Its A/C weather in Houston already its 88 degrees (and feels like 90) according to weather.com at 1:32 pm so I can pretty much guess the rest of my spring and summer will require that my A/C will decrease my miles.
Clear Lake Nissan gave me a three year maintenance plan after I purchased my Lead, so when I have my battery checks hopefully we will be able to compare our data to see the difference between 80% charge and 100% charge over time.
My question is why would you advertise 100 miles of range when you recommend that your customers only charge to 80 miles of range. Its A/C weather in Houston already its 88 degrees (and feels like 90) according to weather.com at 1:32 pm so I can pretty much guess the rest of my spring and summer will require that my A/C will decrease my miles.
Clear Lake Nissan gave me a three year maintenance plan after I purchased my Lead, so when I have my battery checks hopefully we will be able to compare our data to see the difference between 80% charge and 100% charge over time.
Volusiano
Well-known member
I would do the same if I were Nissan and advertise 100 mile range because the battery really IS capable of delivering that kind of range if you choose to require it. The 80% charge is not a range limit. It's just a choice limitation to promote longevity. So post it up both and let people decide on which to choose.shawnbrig said:
GaslessInSeattle
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hmm, how much to charge, which charger to use and how often might make me a little OCD over time! I do wonder if it's worth worrying about. I wish there was a better quantification about how much battery capacity was at stake with various use patterns. I guess this will come with time. If we are talking 1% over several years, I'd favor keeping it at 100% as having more than enough is much better than running out. It might be hard to predict when I will really need that extra 20% and not having it could end up being very disappointing.
Does anyone know why Nissan does not recommend using the "trickle" charger daily? My tendency for using my computer battery and other rechargable batteries has been to avoid leaving them with a low charge at all costs for prolonged periods as it can cause permanent capacity loss and on the other hand to charge slowly and often. This 80% level 2 concept is new to me. If left to my own devices I would charge as often as reasonably possible to 100% using the trickle charger. From what I'm reading now i'm wondering if I should stick to 80% as our driving patterns will probably allow for that... then again to not be ready all the time to be able to use the 100% capacity on occasion may not be worth it if it's only a matter of a few months capacity over a 14 year period.
My guess we would be much more likely to end up below 20% if we only charged to 80% and that would be worse. I look forwarding to hearing everyone's thoughts on this and will dig through the archives.
George
Does anyone know why Nissan does not recommend using the "trickle" charger daily? My tendency for using my computer battery and other rechargable batteries has been to avoid leaving them with a low charge at all costs for prolonged periods as it can cause permanent capacity loss and on the other hand to charge slowly and often. This 80% level 2 concept is new to me. If left to my own devices I would charge as often as reasonably possible to 100% using the trickle charger. From what I'm reading now i'm wondering if I should stick to 80% as our driving patterns will probably allow for that... then again to not be ready all the time to be able to use the 100% capacity on occasion may not be worth it if it's only a matter of a few months capacity over a 14 year period.
My guess we would be much more likely to end up below 20% if we only charged to 80% and that would be worse. I look forwarding to hearing everyone's thoughts on this and will dig through the archives.
George
patrick0101
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- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
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I am currently driving a Leaf on loan from a body-shop while my Prius is being worked on. I am trying to figure out how to charge to 80%. The only way I see to do this is to set a timer. I'd like it to charge to 80% anytime that I plug-in. Currently, I have a timer setup with an 80% option, and my process is:
1) Plug-in
2) Disable the timer via the button on the left side of the steering wheel
This seems to be working, charging seems to be stopping at 80% (but I am not sure since I don't have an SOC display).
I would like to avoid step #2 above if possible. It would be nice if I could just plug-in and go without opening car door again to hit the button. When I am plugging in outdoor in the rain, this is a pain.
The timer screen would not accept a timer that was just 80% without a specified time and I don't see anywhere other than the timer page to enter the 80% preference.
Does anyone know how to get the car into a mode where it will just charge to 80% anytime that it is plugged in?
1) Plug-in
2) Disable the timer via the button on the left side of the steering wheel
This seems to be working, charging seems to be stopping at 80% (but I am not sure since I don't have an SOC display).
I would like to avoid step #2 above if possible. It would be nice if I could just plug-in and go without opening car door again to hit the button. When I am plugging in outdoor in the rain, this is a pain.
The timer screen would not accept a timer that was just 80% without a specified time and I don't see anywhere other than the timer page to enter the 80% preference.
Does anyone know how to get the car into a mode where it will just charge to 80% anytime that it is plugged in?
IBELEAF
Well-known member
Body shop owns Leaf as a loaner? :?patrick0101 said:
DarkStar
Well-known member
Hey Pat,patrick0101 said:
Set up a timer to start at 12:00am and stop at 12:00am and charge to 80%. When you plug in, it should automatically start charging and should stop at 80%.
--Chris
HIOJim
Well-known member
Pardon me while I go out to the garage to assault my Prius with a hammer.... :lol:patrick0101 said:
The usual trick is an all day timer to 80%. For instance set it to start at 12:00AM through 11:50PM. Then whenever you plug in you are on the 80% timer.
(Edit: I now see someone else just mentioned this already...)
In my case I have my timer set from 7PM to 8AM (when my home TOU is cheaper). Then if I stop at a public spot during the day I hit that timer override button.
I think if you press that button it will go to 100% (given enough time), so it sounds like what you are doing right now isn't doing 80%, but rather 100%.
(Edit: I now see someone else just mentioned this already...)
In my case I have my timer set from 7PM to 8AM (when my home TOU is cheaper). Then if I stop at a public spot during the day I hit that timer override button.
I think if you press that button it will go to 100% (given enough time), so it sounds like what you are doing right now isn't doing 80%, but rather 100%.
DarkStar
Well-known member
patrick0101
Well-known member
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Thanks DarkStar and TEG. I will do that.
To HIOJim & IBELEAF , I am writing up a story about the body-shop and why he is using a Leaf as a loaner. I will post a link on here when I get the story published.
To HIOJim & IBELEAF , I am writing up a story about the body-shop and why he is using a Leaf as a loaner. I will post a link on here when I get the story published.
AmarilloLeaf
Well-known member
TEG said:
I formerly used a schedule like this. The problem with that schedule is it starts to charge again at midnight, quickly determines that it is at 80% and quits charging.
It then sends me an email and a text message to that effect.
Hate to admit it, but my bedtime is before midnight, and the text messages got annoying. Since I am off to work by 9am, my schedule now is start 9:00am and stop at 8:50am.
Boomer23
Well-known member
I'm charging to 100% every night unless I have like 11 bars of charge at the end of a day (ie, hardly drove it).
The reason is that life is unpredictable. With the LEAF as one of two cars in the household, if the other car (Prius) was out of commission for any reason or my wife needed to drive it while I had a long errand unexpectedly, I want the LEAF to have as good a range as possible.
I'd also like to be able to get to family members who live 50 to 70 miles away if they need me unexpectedly. I wouldn't be able to make the return trip without charging, but I'd worry about that later.
Disclaimer: I'm leasing for 39 months. I'd probably have a slightly, but not significantly different plan if I'd bought my LEAF.
The reason is that life is unpredictable. With the LEAF as one of two cars in the household, if the other car (Prius) was out of commission for any reason or my wife needed to drive it while I had a long errand unexpectedly, I want the LEAF to have as good a range as possible.
I'd also like to be able to get to family members who live 50 to 70 miles away if they need me unexpectedly. I wouldn't be able to make the return trip without charging, but I'd worry about that later.
Disclaimer: I'm leasing for 39 months. I'd probably have a slightly, but not significantly different plan if I'd bought my LEAF.
garygid
Well-known member
Will a timer 11AM to 11AM work just as well, but without the extra "done charging" message?
LEAFfan
Well-known member
Boomer23 said:
The warranty is only for 36 months...what are you going to do for the other 3?
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
i always have to weigh the unexpected twists on the road of life and that is why i held onto my 2nd Prius for 8 weeks. but it became really obvious that the extra cost of the insurance was simply not worth it. the car was not driven one single time due to need. add another 8 weeks and still have not had a crisis due to range.
a few times, the Prius did the long commute when the Leaf was desired but only because the Leaf was driven extensively the night before and could not recharge quick enough but that is because i am on 120 only until we move. after the move (sometime this month we HOPE!) we will have 240 (thanks Phil!!) so overnight charging will be a non-issue.
either way, the Leaf is still covering 55% of our transportation miles since right now 93% of the Prius trips have been the 62 mile Centralia commute done mon-fri
a few times, the Prius did the long commute when the Leaf was desired but only because the Leaf was driven extensively the night before and could not recharge quick enough but that is because i am on 120 only until we move. after the move (sometime this month we HOPE!) we will have 240 (thanks Phil!!) so overnight charging will be a non-issue.
either way, the Leaf is still covering 55% of our transportation miles since right now 93% of the Prius trips have been the 62 mile Centralia commute done mon-fri
hill
Well-known member
http://www.komonews.com/news/archive/4103321.htmlevnow said:
Sunny days? In the 7th least sunny city in the nation?
gbarry42
Well-known member
Hey, he did say, "unexpected twists"
