to get the 6.6 kW Onboard Charger or not ??

[ptititoi]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and I'm about to go pick up a S model next Saturday but I'm not sure if I need to get the 6.6 kW Onboard Charger at $1300.
I'm going to lease the car for 3 years and drive around 70 miles/day on the freeway, I'm located in Southern California.
I'm not planning on buying the charging station that I would install at home since I'm renting. So I will just use the 110 at home when I come back from work.
Just at the bottom of my office building I do have a charging station where I can charge at a fast speed during the day.

So knowing this do you guys think that I should spend the $1300 for the fast charger.

Sorry if this question seems a bit stupid :?

Thanks for your help.

 

[DeaneG]

70 miles on the freeway is a very long way in a Leaf. You'll need to charge at work too, or you sometimes won't make it home, even in the first year of ownership when the battery is relatively fresh. Three years later you might see a 60-mile freeway range or even less in the cold.

120v charging only gets you about 4-5 miles per hour of charging. A 6.6kW option would let you charge at about 22-25 miles per hour at any public charging station (only 11-12 miles/hour with 3.3kW). Wish I had the 6.6kW charger on my Leaf, it would make drives to cities 35-40 miles away practical.

 

[ptititoi]

70 miles on the freeway is a very long way in a Leaf. You'll need to charge at work too, or you sometimes won't make it home, even in the first year of ownership when the battery is relatively fresh. Three years later you might see a 60-mile freeway range or even less in the cold.

120v charging only gets you about 4-5 miles per hour of charging. A 6.6kW option would let you charge at about 22-25 miles per hour at any public charging station (only 11-12 miles/hour with 3.3kW). Wish I had the 6.6kW charger on my Leaf, it would make drives to cities 35-40 miles away practical.

thanks for this quick reply, so It looks like I'm going to have to find a S with the 6,6 kw charger next week end, thanks again for the advice

 

[cwerdna]

Just at the bottom of my office building I do have a charging station where I can charge at a fast speed during the day.

Is it free or at a reasonable price? Will it remain that way? What charging network is it part of, if any? Is it reliable? Is it often in use, ICEd or blocked? Are there reasonable alternatives nearby or on the way? Are there any CHAdeMO DC fast chargers on the way? That'll charge much faster than via 6.6 kW J1772.

I concur w/the earlier comments about range and needing to charge at work.

Have you looked at Tony's range chart at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

 

[smkettner]

If you can charge at work each day at least 4 hours on L2 I think you will be fine.
About 50 miles per day average is a pratical max on L1.

The 6kW would not be needed IMO as you will be only L1 at home.
You will save a bundle on fuel.

 

[JimSouCal]

If you can charge at work each day at least 4 hours on L2 I think you will be fine.
About 50 miles per day average is a pratical max on L1.

The 6kW would not be needed IMO as you will be only L1 at home.
You will save a bundle on fuel.

Your reasoning is good, but as we know the EVSE brick can be upgraded to 20AMPS, and putting in a 240 plug is often not very complicated. Regardless of whether the 6kW is onboard or not, having some kind of L2 at home is a big plus for those times one wants to stop, shower, grab a bite, and head back out... I'd get a 240 plug and the brick upgraded, regardless.

BTW, if I could, I'd also like to have the 6kW for opportunity charging in the field. I'd think that $1,300 on a lease wouldn't add the payment that much at all. I'd take care in the negotiation... Others have had the larger charger included at the negotiated rate of the standard charger as reported here.

 

[davewill]

If I was limited to L1 at home, I'd definitely want the 6.6kW charger. There will be times when you can't get a full charge because you came home late,or drove it all the way down to empty. Being able to use a public charger at the higher rate would be very useful in those situations.

 

[planet4ever]

That $1300 gets you a package of three things, all three of which are valuable.

• You'll be glad you have the 6kW charger if you ever have to stop at a public EVSE in the middle of a trip, and with that long a commute you are likely to have to do that occasionally unless you have an absolutely guaranteed personal L2 at work.
• There are already QCs in Cypress and downtown LA, and surely more are coming. You are likely to be sorry if you can't use them.
• Assuming the rear view monitor on the S is the same as on the 2011 and 2012 SL, it is one very nice piece of equipment. Of course the screen will be smaller, but after having lived with the SL for nearly two years I don't think I'll ever get another car without a rear view monitor.

Ray

 

[DanBaldwin]

The 3.3 kw charger allows you to charge the Leaf from fully discharged to fully charged in about 6 hours, while the 6.6 kw charger can do it in about 3 hours. For your commute, you will only need to charge app 40-50% of capacity at the L2 station at work, so 3 hours and 1 1/2 hours respectively. If the only driving you're going to do is your commute, I don't see the point in getting the 6.6 kw upgrade. In order for the 6.6 kw charger to do you any good for home charging, you would have to buy and install an L2 EVSE. If you anticipate using public chargers quite a bit, the 6.6 kw charger would be handy.

One word of caution; The Leaf will easily do what you want to do (70 mile round trip commute, L1 charging at home, L2 charging at work), but you have to be able to charge at work. If you lose that capability for some reason (boss changes his mind, EVSE breaks, someone else using EVSE), you probably won't make it.

 

[WetEV]

I'm new here and I'm about to go pick up a S model next Saturday but I'm not sure if I need to get the 6.6 kW Onboard Charger at $1300.

Yes.

It will probably save you both money and time.

Suppose you need to charge daily at work at a pay charge station. Typical rates range from $0.50 to $2.00 per hour. Assume $1. Working 50 weeks, 5 days a week, and charging 2 hours with the 6.0kW and 4 with the 3.3kW, that would add to $500 per year. Yes, the charge station at work might be free now, but don't expect that to last forever. You have a good chance on breaking even just with at work charging.

Both DCQC and 6.0kW charger will save you time, on the occasions that you will need to stop for a charge.

However, 50 weeks a year times 5 days a week times 70 miles per day gives by 17,500 miles per year. What is your lease mileage allowance?

 

[ptititoi]

I'm new here and I'm about to go pick up a S model next Saturday but I'm not sure if I need to get the 6.6 kW Onboard Charger at $1300.

Yes.

It will probably save you both money and time.

Suppose you need to charge daily at work at a pay charge station. Typical rates range from $0.50 to $2.00 per hour. Assume $1. Working 50 weeks, 5 days a week, and charging 2 hours with the 6.0kW and 4 with the 3.3kW, that would add to $500 per year. Yes, the charge station at work might be free now, but don't expect that to last forever. You have a good chance on breaking even just with at work charging.

Both DCQC and 6.0kW charger will save you time, on the occasions that you will need to stop for a charge.

However, 50 weeks a year times 5 days a week times 70 miles per day gives by 17,500 miles per year.
What is your lease mileage allowance?

for sure the station down the building won't be free for long :-(
my lease is good for 15 000 miles/year, I will probably still commute with my 45 mpg motorcycle for at least the 2 500 extra miles/year.

 

[TomT]

The 6.6 charger won't do anything for you on L1 since that charge rate is limited by the available power at 120 volts.

If I was limited to L1 at home, I'd definitely want the 6.6kW charger. There will be times when you can't get a full charge because you came home late,or drove it all the way down to empty. Being able to use a public charger at the higher rate would be very useful in those situations.

 

[ERG4ALL]

As a suggestion, you might want to have the sales person demo the the charging station finder. That may have to be on an upgraded model, we have the 2011 SL and it came with it. But the point is what is available on your route home. If for some reason you cannot get a charge at work it would be useful to know what is on the way home. If that is the case then the 6.6 kW unit would save you some time if you have to get that charge at a Nissan dealer and there is no other reason for being there. A half hour with nothing to occupy you is less frustrating than an hour with nothing to occupy you.

 

[LEAFfan]

Let"s be clear. It"s a 6.0kW charger. It does not double your charging speed. If it takes 7 hours from empty to 100% with the 3.3, it will take 4 hours with the 6.0. Obviously, that is not twice as fast.

 

[TimLee]

Let"s be clear. It"s a 6.0kW charger. It does not double your charging speed. If it takes 7 hours from empty to 100% with the 3.3, it will take 4 hours with the 6.0. Obviously, that is not twice as fast.

+1

In my opinion, an eletric vehicle without DCQC and an infrastructure that has DCQC is a "bad" idea.
See posts at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11621&start=10#p268685" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not sure what any of the car manufacturers are thinking to build fairly short range electric vehicles without including DC fast charging.
I love the LEAF, hope to continue driving electric from now on.
But if where you live has DCFC available, in my opinion they all should have DCFC.
If DCFC isn't available, pure electric is a "bad" idea.

I'm basing the opinion on not having DCQC being a "bad" idea based on the usability of my LEAF since Chattanooga has some installed DCFC units, versus the usability of the LEAF when there weren't any DCFC units available.
On one occasion I had made a 32 mile interstate round trip to downtown, and then needed to make another 40 mile trip. This was not possible without DCFC, so I had to drive ICE vehicle for that trip.
But with Chattanooga now having two DCFC within 8 miles of my home, a second 40 mile trip is easily done with only 30 minutes of DCFC.
Without DCFC, an all electric vehicle with a 24 kWH (21.5 usable) battery is still a very efficient 40 mile range vehicle using L2 overnight at home, and if L2 is available at your work location, it is an 80 mile vehicle for a typical work day.
"Bad idea" may slightly overstate it, but it is such an inferior approach to getting wide use and acceptance of all electric vehicles.
I think the Nissan approach of having DCFC is the correct and best concept.
As Andy Palmer stated, in Japan with DCFC available every 20 km, the LEAF is a great vehicle for most people.
In Norway where they have an extensive DCFC infrastructure, the LEAF is now the 13th most popular vehicle.
With only L2 on electric vehicles, they will be unlikely to achieve more than 5% of vehicle sales.
With DCFC and an extensive DCFC infrastructure, they might get to 20% to 25% of vehicles.
An approach that gets to only 5% of vehicles, versus one that might get to 20% to 25% of vehicles, is a "BAD IDEA".


Although my 2011 LEAF has 3.3 kW charger, if I was buying or leasing a 2013 LEAF I would never consider doing it without the 6 kW on board charger.
An electric vehicle with a 24 kW (21.5 kW usable) battery has inherent limitations.
For it to be as functional as possible, you need both DCQC and the highest kW on board charger (6 kW for the 2013 LEAF) that are available.

 

[ptititoi]

is this what you call a DCFC: http://carstations.com/25258" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, this station is the one next to my office and I have 2 other stations (same style) a bit further from my office that I could use by getting my bicycle in the trunk of my leaf, folding the rear seats...
Along the way of this nightmare freeway (405) there are a lot of these kind of stations too.

Let"s be clear. It"s a 6.0kW charger. It does not double your charging speed. If it takes 7 hours from empty to 100% with the 3.3, it will take 4 hours with the 6.0. Obviously, that is not twice as fast.

+1

In my opinion, an eletric vehicle without DCQC and an infrastructure that has DCQC is a "bad" idea.
See posts at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11621&start=10#p268685" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not sure what any of the car manufacturers are thinking to build fairly short range electric vehicles without including DC fast charging.
I love the LEAF, hope to continue driving electric from now on.
But if where you live has DCFC available, in my opinion they all should have DCFC.
If DCFC isn't available, pure electric is a "bad" idea.

I'm basing the opinion on not having DCQC being a "bad" idea based on the usability of my LEAF since Chattanooga has some installed DCFC units, versus the usability of the LEAF when there weren't any DCFC units available.
On one occasion I had made a 32 mile interstate round trip to downtown, and then needed to make another 40 mile trip. This was not possible without DCFC, so I had to drive ICE vehicle for that trip.
But with Chattanooga now having two DCFC within 8 miles of my home, a second 40 mile trip is easily done with only 30 minutes of DCFC.
Without DCFC, an all electric vehicle with a 24 kWH (21.5 usable) battery is still a very efficient 40 mile range vehicle using L2 overnight at home, and if L2 is available at your work location, it is an 80 mile vehicle for a typical work day.
"Bad idea" may slightly overstate it, but it is such an inferior approach to getting wide use and acceptance of all electric vehicles.
I think the Nissan approach of having DCFC is the correct and best concept.
As Andy Palmer stated, in Japan with DCFC available every 20 km, the LEAF is a great vehicle for most people.
In Norway where they have an extensive DCFC infrastructure, the LEAF is now the 13th most popular vehicle.
With only L2 on electric vehicles, they will be unlikely to achieve more than 5% of vehicle sales.
With DCFC and an extensive DCFC infrastructure, they might get to 20% to 25% of vehicles.
An approach that gets to only 5% of vehicles, versus one that might get to 20% to 25% of vehicles, is a "BAD IDEA".


Although my 2011 LEAF has 3.3 kW charger, if I was buying or leasing a 2013 LEAF I would never consider doing it without the 6 kW on board charger.
An electric vehicle with a 24 kW (21.5 kW usable) battery has inherent limitations.
For it to be as functional as possible, you need both DCQC and the highest kW on board charger (6 kW for the 2013 LEAF) that are available.

 

[TimLee]

is this what you call a DCFC: http://carstations.com/25258" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, this station is the one next to my office and I have 2 other stations (same style) a bit further from my office that I could use by getting my bicycle in the trunk of my leaf, folding the rear seats...
Along the way of this nightmare freeway (405) there are a lot of these kind of stations too.

No.
The link clearly states this is a Level 2, SAE J1772, which is the more widely installed stations.
Only installed DCFC for the LEAF is Chademo.
With DCFC can charge from 20% 2/12 bars to 80% 10/12 bars in a little over 30 minutes.
Charging from very low battery warning to 100% is nearly one hour.
And if the LEAF charge is pretty low to start with, the charging session will have to be restarted to get to 100%, because the LEAF default is to shut down the charging around 80%.
With L2, charging from very low battery and with a LEAF with the on board 6 kW charger, is probably around 4 hours as a previous response stated.

 

[smkettner]

DCQC for a 70 mile vehicle is overrated IMO. The 6 kW charger is a great option if you have 30a L2 at home. And the OP has L1 at home.

 

[ptititoi]

so, if I get the 6.6 kw charger and I use this charging station (Level 2, SAE J1772) it will take me way less time than if I would not get this 6.6 kw charger, right?

is this what you call a DCFC: http://carstations.com/25258" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, this station is the one next to my office and I have 2 other stations (same style) a bit further from my office that I could use by getting my bicycle in the trunk of my leaf, folding the rear seats...
Along the way of this nightmare freeway (405) there are a lot of these kind of stations too.

No.
The link clearly states this is a Level 2, SAE J1772, which is the more widely installed stations.
Only installed DCFC for the LEAF is Chademo.
With DCFC can charge from 20% 2/12 bars to 80% 10/12 bars in a little over 30 minutes.
Charging from very low battery warning to 100% is nearly one hour.
And if the LEAF charge is pretty low to start with, the charging session will have to be restarted to get to 100%, because the LEAF default is to shut down the charging around 80%.
With L2, charging from very low battery and with a LEAF with the on board 6 kW charger, is probably around 4 hours as a previous response stated.

 

[hingisfan]

Let"s be clear. It"s a 6.0kW charger. It does not double your charging speed. If it takes 7 hours from empty to 100% with the 3.3, it will take 4 hours with the 6.0. Obviously, that is not twice as fast.

Can someone explain this? I have seen specs listing it is a 6.6kW onboard charger several times.