To lease or not to lease that is the question

[neofightr]

Actually, you don't. The $7,500 comes right off the top of the cap cost on the lease so you get it all directly and immediately, and it goes straight to Nissan (NMAC), not the dealer.. Some other manufacturers like Toyota are playing games with the federal tax credit but not Nissan. I think you need to do a little better job of research before spouting such things... Being so much in error on a simple thing such as this brings the rest of your "conclusions" in to question...

By leasing you, basically give the fed tax credit ($7500 currently) to the dealership (owner) and let them decide how much they want to pass on to you via crafty lease numbers and upgrade perks.

Yep. TomT is correct.

As part of the research, the OP needs to actually understand leasing a Leaf and the handling of the $7500 Federal tax credit, instead of cherry picking, and conflating it w/other issues. He's already made up his mind based upon faulty information.

You can call it cherry picking all you want but in the end it is up to the individual to decide.
My "mis-information" came from articles from the auto industry and third-party pro-consumer sites. I even justified some points from an article TomT cited who is so kind enough to call me confused and an enemy.

Bottom line: You and your pal can call me the guy with FUD all you like but the truth is out there. People like you and him don't like the fact I am showing the other side to leasing a car.
I did this to paint a fair and balanced picture. I have said since my original post that leasing is viable if you have the right reasons. Leasing doesn't make sense because of range anxiety or the fear of new tech.

Based on all the posts I have read outside this thread people routinely cite the fear of the tech(i.e. battery life, range over the long run etc). This is the absolute wrong reason to get a lease.
You can go on and on trying to justify a lease over a car loan but considering all the tangibles (higher Monthly payments, higher insurance rates) and intangibles (mileage restrictions, somebody else actually being the owner) there is no way it will be better than a car loan assuming you have good credit and are financially responsible.

For everyone reading this thread and are at the decision point of buying vs. leasing, I encourage you to scour the internet for relevant and verifiable articles and then decide for yourself and that is not mis-information that is the Truth!

Do not believe anything the dealership tells you or it's financial arm. They are determined to maximize their profit and they will do whatever it takes this includes outright lies with numbers.

Nuff said.

 

[davewill]

I suggest you guys stop feeding the troll. I, for one, will not* buy (but might lease again) a LEAF unless and until they greatly reduce the degradation, or publish a reasonable price for purchasing a replacement battery. Period.

P.S. to neofightr: Don't bother replying to my post with a three screen word barrage. I won't read it.

*If I lived in the pacific NW or some other very battery friendly place, maybe I could consider it.

 

[KJD]

I suggest you guys stop feeding the troll. I, for one, will not* buy (but might lease again) a LEAF unless and until they greatly reduce the degradation, or publish a reasonable price for purchasing a replacement battery. Period.

Yes +1

 

[neofightr]

And judging by your car's mileage and years owned you DEFINITELY made the right choice considering you are 9k+ plus miles above lease restrictions so don't feel bad.
True - when I bought the LEAF, I only expected maybe 10k miles per year, tops. Wanting to drive electric as much as possible, and changes in my circumstances, resulted in more mileage.

The LEAF has been great, with one major exception. I think the range is down a bit under 20% compared to new, call it 17%. So, given that the 2011 LEAF had an EPA range rating of 73 miles, it would be fair to say it's now down to about 60 miles. That seems roughly consistent with my experience. And I should add that I live in a relatively cool climate, being up over 6000 feet elevation in the Southern California mountains, so my car's battery has held up better than most CA cars. That is generally good, except that I am highly unlikely to qualify for the battery capacity warranty. Based on statements made by Nissan a few years ago, I didn't think my battery's capacity would drop this much until at least five years into ownership.

If I were looking to purchase a LEAF now, I would wait until later in the year to be sure to get the newer battery with a more heat tolerant chemistry. Don't trust anything a car salesman tells you about the battery!

I'm also not crazy about the LEAF's seemingly arbitrary limitations on regenerative braking at higher speeds, but that should be a pretty minor issue for most owners.

I am pleased to see that your real-life range is that good after 45k and cold-climate conditions it can only bode well for my new leaf.

You might be pleased with the conclusion I have come up with regarding the battery-plan that Nissan put out at $100/Month. At first I was worried that Nissan was going to attempt to nickel and dime owners but now I see what they are doing.

If you bought the first-year model in say 2011 like most then your 6 year warranty expires in 2017 or in late 2015 based on heavy mileage. There is a possibility that an aftermarket for replacement batteries may not exist by then and Nissan will still have their Batteries closed to the public. Even if there is an after-market the price of the batteries may be 8k or higher (based on experts in the industry up to 12k) and I doubt the aftermarket warranty will be greater than 3 to 4 years.
If you as an owner decide to sign up 100/month plan from Nissan in 2015/17 then in theory you could go 7 plus years under that plan instead of buying a refurbished battery pack from the aftermarket at a pricepoint of $8k or greater.

I actually think that is a reasonable offer from Nissan after all. Leaf owners take heart!

And I am sure by year 14 you will be happy to trade-in your thoroughly used Leaf for a new even better-ranged Leaf (at a lower price I'm sure) or whatever is good at that time.

 

[WetEV]

I, for one, will not* buy (but might lease again) a LEAF unless and until they greatly reduce the degradation, or publish a reasonable price for purchasing a replacement battery. Period.

If I lived in the pacific NW or some other very battery friendly place, maybe I could consider it.

I live in the Pacific NW, and am in the process of buying a replacement Leaf. I'd lease many places. Much longer lived batteries or a replacement battery price would change the scale in favor of buying.

 

[mbender]

I suggest you guys stop feeding the troll. I, for one, will not* buy (but might lease again) a LEAF unless and until they greatly reduce the degradation, or publish a reasonable price for purchasing a replacement battery. Period.

Yes +1

Yes +11

neofightr, you may have all of your research, opinions and ducks in a row (in your own mind), but your presentation, for lack of a better word, could use some work. Especially for a newbie. Leasing is the perfect option for some, me included, and is done for many more reasons than saving a few pennies. It sounds like lessening or eliminating oil dependence &or imports is a prime motivator for you, as a matter of fact. But it also sounds like if you were somehow forced to lease (the horror!), that would trump any of your other motivations to drive electric because it didn't make financial sense. No? Ha!

[ Oops, I guess I just contradicted my agreement to stop troll-feeding. ]

 

[neofightr]

I suggest you guys stop feeding the troll. I, for one, will not* buy (but might lease again) a LEAF unless and until they greatly reduce the degradation, or publish a reasonable price for purchasing a replacement battery. Period.

Yes +1

Yes +11

neofightr, you may have all of your research, opinions and ducks in a row (in your own mind), but your presentation, for lack of a better word, could use some work. Especially for a newbie. Leasing is the perfect option for some, me included, and is done for many more reasons than saving a few pennies. It sounds like lessening or eliminating oil dependence &or imports is a prime motivator for you, as a matter of fact. But it also sounds like if you were somehow forced to lease (the horror!), that would trump any of your other motivations to drive electric because it didn't make financial sense. No? Ha!

[ Oops, I guess I just contradicted my agreement to stop troll-feeding. ]

Go ahead keep kidding yourself. By the time I hit the 3 year mark, my leaf will be paid off by 2 years with a resale of at least $20k (TomT confirmed this when he stated his own residual value from his lease).
By the time you hit that 3 year mark, you will still be looking at a steep buyout with all kinds of fees (see other people's posts on this) meanwhile after I sell my car for that $20k on the market place, I will have more than half my new Leaf paid off while you are either looking at a full price $40k Leaf or it's back to the lease grinder for you. That's assuming I want to sell my car at the 3 year mark (it's possible if the range is much better).

Keep telling yourself you made the right call maybe one day you will really believe it. Until then feel free to keep attacking me so you can vent your anger from your lease mistake.

As hard as you and your pals try to label me as a troll to ban me or lock this post, look at your own words and ask yourself who is violating forum etiquette.
All my posts have been to inform and advise not to attack. Only you and your lease pals are inferring the attack then proceed to counter-attack.
And I will say this for the umpteenth time, leasing is a viable solution just do it for the right reason not the wrong ones. Yet somehow you are compelled to defend your lease decision by attacking my posts. Ask yourself is that right?

For the record I have never ever leased, but i have seen 3 relatives do it and two of them have declared bankruptcy. And in all cases it was a bad call by their own admission.

 

[cwerdna]

I suggest you guys stop feeding the troll.

Ditto.

neofightr, you may have all of your research, opinions and ducks in a row (in your own mind), but your presentation, for lack of a better word, could use some work. Especially for a newbie. Leasing is the perfect option for some, me included, and is done for many more reasons than saving a few pennies.

+1

He's made it on my (very short) foe's list. I currently don't have time to be aggravated by reading long posts of misinformation along w/the attitude that the "knows" everything then be compelled to feel the need to correct/respond... Maybe others will have the time and he will be a valuable contributor in the future.

I'll check back sometime later...

 

[cgaydos]

As someone who has two LEAFs, one leased and one bought, I have a little experience with the two options. And what's best for you depends on your personal situation as well as the deals being offered at the time.

Some reasons why you might lease:

• Simpler tax credit management. Don't have to float loan(s) to fed and state (if applicable) governments. Don't have to worry about tax credit paperwork or if you have enough tax liability.
• Require range that is on the high end of the lifetime expected range of the LEAF battery, therefore need to renew battery in 2-3 years.
• Avoiding hassles of selling car down the road - trading in a car makes negotiations complex (and is usually a money loser), but selling it yourself is very time consuming.
• No risk of being upside down in case of accident/totaled car (assuming your insurance is set up correctly).
• Manufacturer offers special deals only to leases (this was the case at the end of 2012 on the LEAF).
• Expect much improved technology in 2-3 years.
• Just like getting a new car every 2-3 years - really enjoy the shopping process.

Some reasons why you might buy:

• Bigger tax credit for buying (applies to those of us in Colorado ).
• Avoid lease-turn in issues such as repairing dings in car, tire wear factors, and modifications such as EVSEupgrade.
• Plan to keep car for a long time - this removes cost overhead and complexity of lease and usually is cheaper than buying out the lease at the end.
• Got an incredible deal on a purchase that wasn't available on a lease (not common - sometimes happens with dealer demos).
• Avoid having to spend the time needed to find a new car every 2-3 years - find the whole shopping experience a time sink.

 

[alcalira]

Leasing changed my way of thinking about having a car. I used to think of a car as an investment, something you hoped to keep as long as possible. However, as we all know, cars depreciate (unlike other investments such as houses) so a car is not really a good place to put your cash.

Having now leased a Prius and two LEAFs, I no longer think of a car as an investment. I think of it as a consumable--like shoes. You need it, you spend money on it, and the spending never ends, either because you get new shoes or you keep repairing the old shoes.

Personally, I'd rather get a new car every three years than keep one for 15 years with increasing repair costs and decreasing reliability. Whether one could save a few bucks by driving an old car into the ground doesn't matter to me.

 

[abasile]

If you as an owner decide to sign up 100/month plan from Nissan in 2015/17 then in theory you could go 7 plus years under that plan instead of buying a refurbished battery pack from the aftermarket at a pricepoint of $8k or greater.

Most likely, since we have other cars we can drive including a Prius, we will not be putting any further money into our LEAF other than for essential maintenance. We will, however, continue to use the LEAF whenever possible, subject to the limitations of its decreasing range. I'd rather save the funds toward an eventual acquisition of a Tesla Model X, with no payments.

Getting as much use as possible out of the original battery pack seems like the best option both economically and environmentally, even if it means burning gasoline in the Prius a bit more often. It also helps that I no longer have a daily commute down into a warm/hot area.

 

[TomT]

+1 My Foe list was short and needed an addition! :lol:

He's made it on my (very short) foe's list. I currently don't have time to be aggravated by reading long posts of misinformation along w/the attitude that he "knows" everything then be compelled to feel the need to correct/respond...

 

[abasile]

No foe list for me. If I feel that my perspective is not being heard or respected, I tend to simply remove myself from the conversation. Of course, there are other reasons for disengaging at times, principally the lack of time...