ydnas7 said:long steady incline, then long steady decline are not good for Mirai fuel efficiency. unlike batteries, H2 fuel cells have an efficiency curve that hurts range if the vehicle can't effectively use its HEV battery.
ydnas7 said:Anecdotal evidence expressed by owner of a Mirai on his website,
http://www.corism.com/blog/34/2773.html
range of Mirai drops to 350km on return trip to Hokane tourist area. this contrast in the owners experience in driving on level ground.
note the units are in km not miles,
another blog (university hydrogen car maker/driver)
http://ssj3gohan.tweakblogs.net/blog/11470/why-fuel-cell-cars-dont-work-part-1
actual fuel cell efficiency curves http://www.filedropper.com/hypmhd8-200-01techspec
so yeah, the range reduction is real, it relates to a use that doesn't degrade range on EVs, its in-addition to other reasons for real world range reduction for fuel cells (degradation, adverse atmospheric conditions, etc)
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/08/20150811-mirai.htmlFirst 5 production Toyota Mirai fuel cell vehicles for Europe arrive
. . . We are looking forward to the start of delivery of the first Mirai to customers from September and to see the future taking shape on European roads. As with Prius 15 years ago, we are proud to bring yet another groundbreaking innovation to Europe with Mirai.
—Karl Schlicht, Executive Vice-President Toyota Motor Europe
Toyota is targeting annual sales of 50-100 units per year in 2015 and 2016. Markets beyond the UK, Germany and Denmark will be added from 2017 as the hydrogen infrastructure develops. Price is €66,000 (US$73,000) + VAT (Germany).
GRA said:Toyota is targeting annual sales of 50-100 units per year in 2015 and 2016.
TonyWilliams said:GRA said:Toyota is targeting annual sales of 50-100 units per year in 2015 and 2016.
I'll bet Toyota makes more insurance claims for written off vehicles in a year than this! Wow, I had no idea that they weren't really going to try in Europe.
At 1000 cars per week, Tesla will produce the entire volume equivalent of Europe H2 cars in less than a day.
One day out of a year.
DNAinaGoodWay said:TonyWilliams said:GRA said:Toyota is targeting annual sales of 50-100 units per year in 2015 and 2016.
I'll bet Toyota makes more insurance claims for written off vehicles in a year than this! Wow, I had no idea that they weren't really going to try in Europe.
At 1000 cars per week, Tesla will produce the entire volume equivalent of Europe H2 cars in less than a day.
One day out of a year.
I thought they were assembling each one by hand. Must take a little longer.
Then stop adding non-Mirai specific to it. :roll:GRA said:Can a mod _please_ move all the "why FCEVs don't make sense and never will" posts over to the H2/FCEV thread?
drees said:Then stop adding non-Mirai specific to it. :roll:GRA said:Can a mod _please_ move all the "why FCEVs don't make sense and never will" posts over to the H2/FCEV thread?
Thread locked until further notice.
EDIT: I just spent 40 minutes reading through this thread and moving a LOT of posts which are either 100% FCEV/H2 based or at the very least the ratio of FCEV/H2 content to Mirai content was easiliy biased towards FCEV/H2 content to the H2/FCEV thread.
Absolutely zero of the posts since my last general warning have remained on topic.
Zero.
As I see it, we have a a couple choices:
1. Let the topic drift where it may.
2. Merge the Mirai and H2 / FCEV threads together.
3. Continue on as usual - and live with the poor signal to noise ratio and periodic thread clean ups.
Thoughts?
Doing my best, but I'm aware that I'm often one of the worst for topic drift, or sometimes you feel you just have to reply to off-topic posts.drees said:Then stop adding non-Mirai specific to it. :roll:GRA said:Can a mod _please_ move all the "why FCEVs don't make sense and never will" posts over to the H2/FCEV thread?
I count three choices I much prefer #3, extra work though it may be for the mods. We have a Tucson FCEV thread, which (so far at least) mostly seems to stay on-topic (complaints about early H2 station problems aside, which drift to the general), and given some strict policing initially this one can be nudged back in the same direction. As epirali points out, given the slow roll-out this topic is bound to have a small number of posts for a while, and that's fine. I only initiate posts here to report Mirai-specific news, keeping the general stuff for that topic.drees said:Thread locked until further notice.
EDIT: I just spent 40 minutes reading through this thread and moving a LOT of posts which are either 100% FCEV/H2 based or at the very least the ratio of FCEV/H2 content to Mirai content was easiliy biased towards FCEV/H2 content to the H2/FCEV thread.
Absolutely zero of the posts since my last general warning have remained on topic.
Zero.
As I see it, we have a a couple choices:
1. Let the topic drift where it may.
2. Merge the Mirai and H2 / FCEV threads together.
3. Continue on as usual - and live with the poor signal to noise ratio and periodic thread clean ups.
Thoughts?
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/04/20150429-mirai.html#moreToyota pops the hood on the technology of the fuel cell Mirai at SAE World Congress
Little activity is a bonus - then you might actually see Mirai specific content if you are looking for it. Not much input and I pretty much agree with GRA and #3 for the time being so we'll leave things as they are.epirali said:So if people stuck to the topic the thread may see little activity anyway. And with no disincentive and a lack of basic ability to stay on topic (because honestly there is very little content added here that addresses the Mirai specifically) maybe the most practical approach is 2?
drees said:Being curious about the Mirai, I signed up online expressing interest in one by going through the questionnaire.
I get all the way through despite it appearing that there will only be one fueling station 10 miles away from home (and not along my commute) at least a year from now and the nearest dealer being 60 miles away.
I start receiving daily calls last Friday and they are leaving messages asking me to call back. I finally get the chance to answer one and talk to a nice woman, but I don't get any real additional information from her, really just seems to want my permission to forward my information to the dealer who will then contact me, so I agree - maybe they have more information.
Next I receive an email from the dealer asking me for a $500 deposit and includes a 2 page document saying how H2 fueling requires special training, loss of range will occur over the life of the vehicle (but don't say how much to expect).
Hrm.
Whatever curiosity I had in the vehicle has now been effectively killed.
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