Turtle range

[justrollin]

New owner here... I want to test the limits of different driving styles and end the run in turtle mode around my charger. I know there are a lot of factors involved, but generally what has everyone seen being the "range" once turtle takes over? Do I have 1, 2, or 3 miles to find power?

 

[walter]

From what I have read and heard you are talking minutes not miles. I heard if you are in the left lane and you turtle you had better get to the right shoulder or lane real quick. I have not experienced this and hope I never will.....

 

[TonyWilliams]

Assuming completely level ground, and the absolute lightest touch on the gas pedal (I mean so light that you won't see the second power bubble light up), perfect conditions (warm, no climate control, balanced battery cells, tires 36psi or over, no wind, no road contamination like heavy rain, snow, ice, slush, THEN:

I've achieved 1.8 miles. Most of that was accelerating to 10-15mph on the slight up hills (by slight, I mean several feet climb in elevation) and coasting down the slight downhills. The car rolls very well. Actually, I'll bet more than one mile was rolling.

I did make it into my garage without an auto-shutdown!

Count on several hundred yards to about 1/2 mile.

Please check out the range chart linked at the top of my signature line.

 

[palmermd]

You might want to peruse this thread http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Lots of good information regarding range.

The short answer is "Less than 1/2 a mile at 25mph maximum speed".


edit: looks like we cross posted....I'l leave it up anyway.

 

[adric22]

My goal is to never see the turtle.

I have 9,000 miles and have owned my Leaf for almost a year and so far I've never gotten close. I think the lowest number i've seen on the GOM is 18 miles.

 

[thankyouOB]

My goal is to never see the turtle.

I have 9,000 miles and have owned my Leaf for almost a year and so far I've never gotten close. I think the lowest number i've seen on the GOM is 18 miles.

put me in the chicken category with you, though I have seen single digits and the bright flash; i.e. -- on the dash; no turtle however.
i

 

[Herm]

It also depends on how well balanced your batteries are, but its safe to assume you are running on the fumes.

 

[LEAFfan]

You may want to buy an SOC meter from 'garygid' before you do it. When I went to Turtle, my gauge (LEAF SGII) said 2.4%. When you get VLBW (5.8%), there will be only dashes on your GOM, so you won't really know how many miles you have left to Turtle. I was within 500 feet from the QC station when the Turtle lit up.

 

[planet4ever]

I drove around the closed loop closest to my home the one time I pushed it to turtle intentionally. This turned out to be 0.9 miles long, with a 22 foot elevation change. I was 0.4 miles from home when the turtle flashed on, and I made it, but based on reports from others I wouldn't try it again. The only other time I saw the turtle was as I was approaching my driveway at the end of a trip home where I got the first warning (LBW) with 19 miles to go, and I couldn't get off the freeway for several miles.

I've been to LBW many times, and VLBW several times (maybe half a dozen?). My rule now is:

• LBW means slow down unless you are within 5 or 6 miles of your destination. (See Tony's chart for how much to slow down.)
• VLBW means you are pushing it, and you should give yourself a virtual tongue lashing for abusing your battery. See TickTock's graph.
• Turtle means get off the road ASAP to a safe parking location and call for help.

Ray

 

[LEAFfan]

LBW means slow down unless you are within 5 or 6 miles of your destination. (See Tony's chart for how much to slow down.)
Ray

If you're only going around 40mph (city driving), you can go 20 miles after LBW. On the freeway, at 60-65mph, I've driven around 10 before the VLBW.

 

[TonyWilliams]

On the freeway, at 60-65mph, I've driven around 10 before the VLBW.

Does that mean that you've driven 10 miles from LBW to VLB ?

 

[dheywood71]

I had my Leaf down to Turtle mode the first week I owned it. I just had to know what it looked like. I ran the battery down to VLB. The three bars where flashing. I drove around the industrial park near my house till the turtle appeared. Unfortunately I made the mistake of shifting into park so I could take a photo of the turtle. Big mistake! I could not shift back into drive. I had to push the car 50 meters to plug it in to 110volt outlet and charge for 1 1/2 hours before I could drive it home.

 

[CWO4Mann]

If I know my route, and if I have driven it before, I will let the GOM go down to 10 miles, sometimes as low as 5 miles. However, this is on the very last leg of the trip to a position which I know is "right around the bend" so to speak.

Dave

 

[LEAFfan]

If I know my route, and if I have driven it before, I will let the GOM go down to 10 miles, sometimes as low as 5 miles. However, this is on the very last leg of the trip to a position which I know is "right around the bend" so to speak.
Dave

Dave, if you take it down to just below 5 (I've never seen a 4), it will go to VLBW, which means you still have 8.5% left until Turtle or about 7 miles at 40mph. You can extend it by some coasting.

 

[GerryAZ]

At 15 to 25 mi/hr (which is all the LEAF is capable of in Turtle mode on level ground) you may get between 1/4 and 1/2 mile under traction motor power before shutdown. If you are at highway speed when the Turtle light comes on, you can coast farther than that because the rolling resistance of the LEAF is quite low.

Gerry

 

[daleandwendy]

Take a generator with you and test it out yourself. I tried it once. I drove mostly at 60-65mph and reached 103 miles on hilly San Diego freeways. I got 12miles after reaching zero. I got about 1/2 mile after I saw the turtle. I found the famous range chart to be inaccurate for me. Now I drive without range anxiety because I know how far I can go. I have never needed to go near the "low battery warning" for the past 7000 miles and I charge to 60% because I realized my family doesn't need that much range on any single trip.
Dale

 

[TonyWilliams]

Take a generator with you and test it out yourself. I tried it once. I drove mostly at 60-65mph and reached 103 miles on hilly San Diego freeways. I got 12miles after reaching zero. I got about 1/2 mile after I saw the turtle. I found the famous range chart to be inaccurate for me. Now I drive without range anxiety because I know how far I can go. I have never needed to go near the "low battery warning" for the past 7000 miles and I charge to 60% because I realized my family doesn't need that much range on any single trip.
Dale

Dale,

How would you possibly drive 103 miles at 60-65mph -and- never go near LBW ?

That is absolutely impossible. Heck, it's impossible if you had driven the car all the way to turtle!!!!

I'll suggestt that you either saw the GuessOmeter prediction of miles, and have never actually driven that far in your LEAF, or you werent at 60-65mph. If you read the notes on the range chart, you will see that the data is based on actual range (that means how far you can drive with a given set of parameters). It does not in any way use GoM or CarWings information.

Retreading your post, it seems you claim "mostly" 60-65mph, where the data doesn't have a "mostly" quotient. For you to drive 103 miles (here's a list of folks who have actually done it), your miles/kWh economy would have to be WELL above that required to sustain 60-65mph.

60-60mph requires about 4 miles/kWh to sustain, and with about 21 usable kWh in that battery, 84 miles is it !!!! To go 103 miles does require almost 5 miles/kWh. So, I'm calling BS on your claim of 103 miles at mostly 60-65mph! :mrgreen:

In short, you're not using the chart correctly. That's why it specifically states speeds EXACTLY, not average or mostly (and then claiming the chart is wrong). If you weren't driving a steady speed, then your range data is predicated on miles/kWh. Again, you would have to be close to 5 miles/kWh to cover 103 miles.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT PLAN A 100 MILE TRIP AT 60-65MPH and expect to actually get there without a charge enroute.

Come on out to Poway on June 9 and let a few dozen of my San Diego LEAF friends show you how to calculate range!!!!

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155193#p155193" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[LEAFfan]

I found the famous range chart to be inaccurate for me. Now I drive without range anxiety because I know how far I can go.
Dale

Dale, I also found the chart inaccurate for me too, but for a different reason. Even at his "exactly" speeds, I always exceed the m/kW h and the miles. He did his testing and based his chart on CA roads, which is much different than here. Also, they're based on set speeds once you reach the freeway/Interstate which isn't realistic because most people have to travel a ways to get to those freeways/Interstates which can really boost your miles and m/kW h. To tell drivers to 'reset' their dash meter when they reach the freeway is ridiculous when they are trying to see how many miles they can go on their WHOLE trip. You should only reset your meter IF you want to just do some of your own research. Like I said, I did reset the meter when I reached the freeway (for comparisons), drove all freeway at a set speed under his ideal conditions, and STILL exceeded his figures every time.

 

[daleandwendy]

Take a generator with you and test it out yourself. I tried it once. I drove mostly at 60-65mph and reached 103 miles on hilly San Diego freeways. I got 12miles after reaching zero. I got about 1/2 mile after I saw the turtle. I found the famous range chart to be inaccurate for me. Now I drive without range anxiety because I know how far I can go. I have never needed to go near the "low battery warning" for the past 7000 miles and I charge to 60% because I realized my family doesn't need that much range on any single trip.
Dale

Dale,

How would you possibly drive 103 miles at 60-65mph -and- never go near LBW ?

That is absolutely impossible. Heck, it's impossible if you had driven the car all the way to turtle!!!!

I'll suggestt that you either saw the GuessOmeter prediction of miles, and have never actually driven that far in your LEAF, or you werent at 60-65mph. If you read the notes on the range chart, you will see that the data is based on actual range (that means how far you can drive with a given set of parameters). It does not in any way use GoM or CarWings information.

Retreading your post, it seems you claim "mostly" 60-65mph, where the data doesn't have a "mostly" quotient. For you to drive 103 miles (here's a list of folks who have actually done it), your miles/kWh economy would have to be WELL above that required to sustain 60-65mph.

60-60mph requires about 4 miles/kWh to sustain, and with about 21 usable kWh in that battery, 84 miles is it !!!! To go 103 miles does require almost 5 miles/kWh. So, I'm calling BS on your claim of 103 miles at mostly 60-65mph! :mrgreen:

In short, you're not using the chart correctly. That's why it specifically states speeds EXACTLY, not average or mostly (and then claiming the chart is wrong). If you weren't driving a steady speed, then your range data is predicated on miles/kWh. Again, you would have to be close to 5 miles/kWh to cover 103 miles.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT PLAN A 100 MILE TRIP AT 60-65MPH and expect to actually get there without a charge enroute.

Come on out to Poway on June 9 and let a few dozen of my San Diego LEAF friends show you how to calculate range!!!!

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155193#p155193" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi Tony,
I did this one time trip when I first bought the car. I did charge the car to full and had full intentions of driving it until dead battery. Thats why i brought the generator. I started around the spring valley area, to the 54, then to 805, then to 5, then to Legoland, back to spring valley and local roads until it died. I made 103 miles and most of it was on the freeway. I just wonder about all the stories I hear when people think they almost did not make it home with only 1 mile left on the GOM. I guess the GOM could be different based on which firmware version you have. But for me, I got pretty far past zero. Now that I understand that this could effect battery longevity, so I won't go down that low. But it's nice to know that the range is there if I needed it in an emergency. My last car car was the Ford Think so I'm happy with a 50 mile range.
Dale

 

[dgpcolorado]

I found the famous range chart to be inaccurate for me. Now I drive without range anxiety because I know how far I can go.
Dale

Dale, I also found the chart inaccurate for me too, but for a different reason. Even at his "exactly" speeds, I always exceed the m/kW h and the miles. He did his testing and based his chart on CA roads, which is much different than here. Also, they're based on set speeds once you reach the freeway/Interstate which isn't realistic because most people have to travel a ways to get to those freeways/Interstates which can really boost your miles and m/kW h. To tell drivers to 'reset' their dash meter when they reach the freeway is ridiculous when they are trying to see how many miles they can go on their WHOLE trip. You should only reset your meter IF you want to just do some of your own research. Like I said, I did reset the meter when I reached the freeway (for comparisons), drove all freeway at a set speed under his ideal conditions, and STILL exceeded his figures every time.

That seems very unfair. The range chart can be used to plan a trip (5 miles at 30 mph, 23 miles at 65 mph, etc) to get an idea of whether it is feasible. The idea that it is necessary to integrate changing speeds and compare them to the range chart while driving misses the point of it IMO.

Was your driving "under his ideal conditions" really at 70ºF? Were you really at sea level? Were you really not using the hypermiling techniques for which you are so well known here? I'd be astonished if you didn't substantially exceed the range chart mileage if you were driving at higher temperatures, higher elevation, and using hypermiling techniques, such as coasting as opposed to braking, whenever possible. The chart is intended for average drivers to get an idea of the physical limits of range under given conditions. Some of the values are approximations, for example the numbers for elevation change, temperature, and regen, because there isn't enough empirical data to refine them yet.

But I'm willing to guess that even you can't do 100 miles at 65 mph on a level road at 70º at sea level, which are the stated base conditions for the figures in the chart. Since the Phoenix area is rather higher than sea level and often quite a bit warmer than 70º, are you considering those factors? They make a substantial difference.