Volt Vs. Leaf practical range comparison

[DANandNAN]

LOL, so you're taking the bet J/K, I wouldn't take your money :lol: But, seriously, enjoy the Leaf, I'm sure you will.

You drive 20K miles per year, just to work and back? Yikes! About 80 miles a day? Have you looked into charging at work? Eh, probably better to not go OT. Oh, but I will correct you and say that the SAE Combo - all in one plug (L3 & L2) wasn't a GM creation, it's from the SAE. GM is a vocal supporter, but they're not the only ones using it. But, again OT.

Sandust,
Great point about the generator maintenance schedule. Generators are very different than normal ICE and the Volt is specifically designed (special oil, special seals and all) to hold fuel for one year. Don't try that in your normal ICE. Heck, ask a boat guy to do it and they'd flip their lid :lol:

 

[LKK]

What needs to be done to maintain the Volt's generator? Does its traction motor also have to be maintained?

 

[EvansvilleLeaf]

Well for me it's much simpler. I exceed the Volt's EV maximum about 40% of all days. I exceed the Leaf's EV maximum, even in winter and even at 80% charge (never got less than 55-60 to lbw, let alone to dead, even below freezing at 80%, and charging to 100% on colder days eliminates all FUD with no battery risk), about 1.5% of all days. We have other cars for those.

That and it's an incredibly uncomfortable and cramped entry/exit in the Volt for me. Give us some knee-room by taking away the USS Enterprise styling and letting the wheel go up more than 1/4" and I'd probably be very happy with the Volt as a second car to maximize total household EV miles but allow long trips too, however.

 

[SanDust]

What needs to be done to maintain the Volt's generator? Does its traction motor also have to be maintained?

People overestimate how much maintenance modern engines require, and generators require even less. At ten years a Volt generator might only have only powered the car for 30,000 miles while running at a sweet spot. I think the regular maintenance is an oil change every two years.

What people underestimate is the complexity both of the engine and the TMS and the systems needed to service. Pumps and lines and sensors. Plus a ton of software knitting it together. Lots of failure points.

 

[SanDust]

Well for me it's much simpler.

That's great the Leaf works for you so well. My driving is more typical in that I go less than forty or over a hundred. My point was simply that if you gave every driver a Volt you'd end up with more electric miles driven than if you gave every driver a Leaf.

 

[ztanos]

LOL, so you're taking the bet J/K, I wouldn't take your money :lol: But, seriously, enjoy the Leaf, I'm sure you will.

You drive 20K miles per year, just to work and back? Yikes! About 80 miles a day? Have you looked into charging at work? Eh, probably better to not go OT. Oh, but I will correct you and say that the SAE Combo - all in one plug (L3 & L2) wasn't a GM creation, it's from the SAE. GM is a vocal supporter, but they're not the only ones using it. But, again OT.

Sandust,
Great point about the generator maintenance schedule. Generators are very different than normal ICE and the Volt is specifically designed (special oil, special seals and all) to hold fuel for one year. Don't try that in your normal ICE. Heck, ask a boat guy to do it and they'd flip their lid :lol:

I do drive around 80 miles a day and yes I can charge at work, thankfully. But I have driven the route in the test car without it and know that I can make it if I'm unable to (or at least for the first 2 years until battery degrades).

True the SAE combo plug isn't GM, but I doubt it would have gained nearly the traction and push that it has gained without them.

Does the generator have some kind of fan in the gas chamber to keep it from sitting still? I would love to know more details on this, as like I mentioned before, everything I know of their maintenance cycle I learned from you.

 

[Reddy]

Well for me it's much simpler.

That's great the Leaf works for you so well. My driving is more typical in that I go less than forty or over a hundred. My point was simply that if you gave every driver a Volt you'd end up with more electric miles driven than if you gave every driver a Leaf.

I'll agree, unless you also provide DC QC every 50 miles along with a Leaf for every driver.

 

[Cheezmo]

Well for me it's much simpler.

That's great the Leaf works for you so well. My driving is more typical in that I go less than forty or over a hundred. My point was simply that if you gave every driver a Volt you'd end up with more electric miles driven than if you gave every driver a Leaf.

I'll agree, unless you also provide DC QC every 50 miles along with a Leaf for every driver.

That won't help. How many drivers want to reduce their average speed on a long trip down to 45 MPH by stopping every hour to charge for 20 minutes.

 

[AndyH]

Oh, but I will correct you and say that the SAE Combo - all in one plug (L3 & L2) wasn't a GM creation, it's from the SAE. GM is a vocal supporter, but they're not the only ones using it. But, again OT.

Some may think this is splitting hairs, but from the vantagepoint of someone that's 'sat in' on some of the J1772 meetings during development of the 'frankenplug', it was pretty clear that the head of the group was driving the agenda - and the head was/is from GM. My gut says that the separate J1772/CHAdeMO combination will win, even though Nissan and folks from CHAdeMO were involved in the J1772 frankenplug process.

Thankfully, the J1772 publishes a 'recommended standard' that is in no way binding. The world's automakers can continue to use the defacto standard until such time as there are enough frankenunits in the field to make a difference.

Nice overview, adric22. It'll be interesting to see how the two compare in a few years. They really are two different applications - hybrids are harder on batteries than pure EVs, for example, so what might appear as a paper battery life advantage for the Volt might be only a slight advantage to level playing field in say 5 years. I think right now we still have some of those unknown unknowns orbiting the batteries. :lol:

 

[GRA]

Oh, but I will correct you and say that the SAE Combo - all in one plug (L3 & L2) wasn't a GM creation, it's from the SAE. GM is a vocal supporter, but they're not the only ones using it. But, again OT.

Some may think this is splitting hairs, but from the vantagepoint of someone that's 'sat in' on some of the J1772 meetings during development of the 'frankenplug', it was pretty clear that the head of the group was driving the agenda - and the head was/is from GM. My gut says that the separate J1772/CHAdeMO combination will win, even though Nissan and folks from CHAdeMO were involved in the J1772 frankenplug process.

Thankfully, the J1772 publishes a 'recommended standard' that is in no way binding. The world's automakers can continue to use the defacto standard until such time as there are enough frankenunits in the field to make a difference.

Nice overview, adric22. It'll be interesting to see how the two compare in a few years. They really are two different applications - hybrids are harder on batteries than pure EVs, for example, so what might appear as a paper battery life advantage for the Volt might be only a slight advantage to level playing field in say 5 years. I think right now we still have some of those unknown unknowns orbiting the batteries. :lol:

Hybrids like the Prius certainly cycle far more than a PHEV designed like the Volt, so I don't think the battery lives are comparable; that's one reason the chemistries are different. ISTM the Volt is essentially using an energy battery rather than an HEV's power battery. The Volt runs as a pure EV most of the time, rather than constantly cycling a much smaller battery. Once you go beyond its AER it acts more like a pure hybrid battery, but that's a relatively small portion of most Volt miles, and I suspect using the 'Hold' button on the 2013s will eliminate much of that, although I'm not clear on just how the control logic will work.