What's a realistic time frame, or should I take the buyback?

[Deleted member 38087]

Hi. I purchased a 2016 Nissan Leaf on December 18th used from a Nissan dealer, and it immediately qualified for the battery replacement warranty. I have just been contacted by Nissan, and it sounds like there is zero chance of finding a replacement battery. Is this the case -- especially since the Nissan Leaf is now being discontinued? Or should I live in denial and wait? Note, the car is paid off, I really enjoy driving it, and I can't afford a much more expensive car. That said, the car only has a range of about 25 miles.

 

[Drew21]

I'm curious about your decision tree with this purchase.
1) Did you know the Leaf you purchased had a range of roughly 25 miles? Was it priced accordingly? Does that range meet your needs?
2) Did you know that it would qualify for battery replacement when you bought it? Was that part of your decision to purchase?
3) Did you know about the battery replacement process (i.e., the fact that it's not a smooth operation at the moment) before purchasing? Did you know about the recent high frequency of buybacks before purchasing?

I'm going to assume that you purchased this car for a low price given the reduced range. What is the buyback offer? If it's significantly more than you paid and more than the car is worth in it's current condition, not taking the buyback is sort of like throwing away free money, right? Take the money and find a better Leaf

Alternatively, if the current 25 mile range covers your needs and you like the car, and if the buyback offer isn't that great, you might as well roll the dice and see if you can get a new battery.

 

[Deleted member 38087]

I did not know the car had about 25 miles (though it was advertised as having a much longer range), but I did know it would qualify for the battery replacement. The car was only $9.5k. I discovered the true range after driving it for a week. I only need to drive around town, so yes, it does fit my needs. That said, it would be nice to not have to worry about finding an EV charger when I get out of downtown. I knew it would take months to get a battery, but from speaking to the folks at Nissan (and I think it is in their best interest for a buy back vs. a battery replacement), it sounds like a replacement isn't going to happen. Nissan is coming back to me with a buyback offer, but the arbitration specialist (?) said she is going to research the battery situation in Texas first.

 

[Deleted member 38087]

To clarify, my preference is to wait for a battery, even if it takes up to a year, simply because the car is paid off. If I have to buy a new car, that means at least an additional $10k which I don't have.

 

[knightmb]

To clarify, my preference is to wait for a battery, even if it takes up to a year, simply because the car is paid off. If I have to buy a new car, that means at least an additional $10k which I don't have.

If you are willing to wait, you will actually get a bigger battery than what it started with, specifically the 40 kWh battery. You will easily be boosted to a 149 mile range at full charge then. Since it meets your needs now even with the degraded battery, I would wait for better things. Provided there is nothing else wrong with the vehicle mechanically since you didn't mention how many miles it has, you may have walked right into a bargain. But... if they offer up some amazing buyback, well as was said, free money is free money. You could put it as a down payment on the next generation style Leaf (2018 and later models).

 

[Deleted member 38087]

Apologies, 45k miles. Thanks for the responses.

 

[Drew21]

I know used cars are expensive at the moment, but... wow. I wouldn't pay $9500 for a 2016 Leaf with low miles and perfect battery health. But, I've never lived in a financial world where I can use "only" and "$9500" in the same sentence.

Stepping back, if you bought the car from a dealership, why didn't you take it back as soon as you discovered the extremely low range that did not match the advertised range? They either lied to you or (if we're being charitable) don't know anything about the Nissan Leaf. Either way, not a business you want to give your money to.

If you knew the car qualified for battery replacement, did you talk to the dealership about this before making your purchase? In other words, did you know about the difficulty in acquiring a replacement battery before handing over your money?

For your sake I hope you're not negotiating with the same dealership regarding either a replacement battery or buyback. Based on their previous behavior, I wouldn't expect a favorable resolution.

 

[Deleted member 38087]

This has been a learning experience and I thought I was making a good choice. I also thought getting a replacement battery would be a much easier process. I will be going back to the dealership at this point since I wasn't sold the product as advertised.

 

[rsbrax]

If you are willing to wait, you will actually get a bigger battery than what it started with, specifically the 40 kWh battery. You will easily be boosted to a 149 mile range at full charge then. Since it meets your needs now even with the degraded battery, I would wait for better things. Provided there is nothing else wrong with the vehicle mechanically since you didn't mention how many miles it has, you may have walked right into a bargain. But... if they offer up some amazing buyback, well as was said, free money is free money. You could put it as a down payment on the next generation style Leaf (2018 and later models).

Please clarify. Do you mean external provider other than Nissan for a 40 kWh battery upgrade on a 2016 Leaf?

I inquired at the local Nissan dealership about a 40 kWh battery upgrade for my 2012 Leaf. They said that Nissan will only provide a battery pack with the same capacity as the original when the Leaf was new.

 

[v2gnissanleaf]

Please clarify. Do you mean external provider other than Nissan for a 40 kWh battery upgrade on a 2016 Leaf?

I inquired at the local Nissan dealership about a 40 kWh battery upgrade for my 2012 Leaf. They said that Nissan will only provide a battery pack with the same capacity as the original when the Leaf was new.

I understand a dealer would not place a bigger battery cause the attachment bolts are different and they would need to adapt a bus can? For the car to read the battery.

 

[knightmb]

Please clarify. Do you mean external provider other than Nissan for a 40 kWh battery upgrade on a 2016 Leaf?

I inquired at the local Nissan dealership about a 40 kWh battery upgrade for my 2012 Leaf. They said that Nissan will only provide a battery pack with the same capacity as the original when the Leaf was new.

Nissan does not produce 30 kWh battery packs anymore. The 40 kWh pack fits in the into the same spot and some conversion parts are used to bolt it in along with the HV connections to the HVAC, etc. Unless they bought a used pack from somewhere, which is doubtful. For years now, a lot of people would try to find a very weak 30 kWh pack in a 2016 or 2017 Leaf at dealer lots still under battery warranty so they can get the free battery upgrade.

Yeah, the dealerships will not do 24 to 40 kWh pack upgrades, Nissan won't let them. You can get a dealership to order a 40 kWh for you but it will not come with any battery warranty if you install it yourself, so that's why most people source a used 40 kWh pack for their upgrade.

 

[TronJockey]

Hi. I purchased a 2016 Nissan Leaf on December 18th used from a Nissan dealer, and it immediately qualified for the battery replacement warranty. I have just been contacted by Nissan, and it sounds like there is zero chance of finding a replacement battery. Is this the case -- especially since the Nissan Leaf is now being discontinued? Or should I live in denial and wait? Note, the car is paid off, I really enjoy driving it, and I can't afford a much more expensive car. That said, the car only has a range of about 25 miles.

Be advised that the 2016 and 2017 (30kWh) models have a known software bug in the BMS algorithm that incorrectly calculates the battery pack's health and capacity degradation (SOH). The 30kWh models require a software upgrade (that is available) that very few have received. Dealers cannot be expected to be helpful in this matter unless pressured to provide it. After this upgrade you will find that your Leaf will likely have a better battery pack than your BMS software is reporting. I would absolutely investigate this BMS software upgrade since I would bet that your Leaf has not had this upgrade.
As an early Leaf owner, you should also familiarize yourself with a VERY important tool for monitoring and evaluating battery health from a very in-depth and even technical perspective if necessary. It's a software app called "Leaf Spy" and is freely available for download to cell phones and tablets. Leaf Spy is used with a BlueTooth dongle that plugs into your OBDII connector under the dash (typically available for under $19 on Amazon). Most of the Leaf owners on this forum are familiar with this. As well there are numerous videos on YouTube that describe how to easily use Leaf Spy. As well, there are also numerous videos on YouTube that describe the BMS software bug. I'd like to be more helpful but I own a 2019 and have not had to delve very deeply into the BMS software bug. I'm simply aware that it exists and that there is a solution for it. Be aware though that even with the software bug eliminated the 30kWh battery packs are still plagued with other issues including accelerated degradation. They simply were not very good battery packs.

There is also good news on the horizon for older Leafs. There are no fewer than 3 new non-OEM sources for Leaf battery upgrades and or new battery packs. I'm aware of two from China and one from New Zealand. As well there are a growing number of shops here in the US that are willing and qualified to work on our Leaf battery packs (rebuild, refurbish and replace). Again, there are owners on this forum that can provide more information on all this, hopefully they will chime in here. Good luck with your Leaf. Once you get them sorted out they make for incredibly low cost-to-own and INCREDIBLY RELIABLE commuter cars.

 

[cornbinder89]

Is the one from New Zealand in production? Last I heard it was still not in production, the draw of it was they were planning to add active cooling to the pack.

 

[TronJockey]

Yes, EVs Enhanced - Home

 

[TronJockey]

https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/catl-full-battery-64-kwh-with-bms.34277/
https://augbattery.en.alibaba.com/p...l?spm=a2700.shop_index.67407.4.7acb6c82yGkK3I

 

[TronJockey]

Companies around the world offer replacement LEAF batteries:​

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/companies-around-the-world-offer-replacement-leaf-batteries/

 

[TronJockey]

Nissan Leaf Owner Creates World Map For Battery-Replacing Companies:​

https://insideevs.com/news/443871/world-map-for-battery-replacing-companies/

 

[rsbrax]

Yes, EVs Enhanced - Home
View attachment 3245

Wish it were available...but it is not in production yet.

16 BLADE - The Ultimate Nissan LEAF Battery​

We are pleased to introduce 16 Blade, a complete replacement platform for the Nissan LEAF. Built from the ground up by EVs Enhanced, 16 Blade has been designed using the optimal module layout with the confines of the original Nissan battery pack enclosure. 16 Blade uses a highly advanced active thermal management system and is compatible with a wide range of current cell chemistries. 16 Blade is not in yet in production, but we are working hard to bring the GREEN variant to production as soon as possible.

 

[cwerdna]

Be advised that the 2016 and 2017 (30kWh) models have a known software bug in the BMS algorithm that incorrectly calculates the battery pack's health and capacity degradation (SOH). The 30kWh models require a software upgrade (that is available)
...
Dealers cannot be expected to be helpful in this matter unless pressured to provide it. After this upgrade you will find that your Leaf will likely have a better battery pack than your BMS software is reporting. I would absolutely investigate this BMS software upgrade

Yes, this is PC630 / NTB18-039. See below:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10143139-9999.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10143483-9999.pdf

If a 30 kWh goes to a Nissan dealer w/8 capacity bars or less before capacity warranty expiration, before they can file a warranty claim for a pack, they will HAVE to install the above update anyway (if not yet installed).

Nissan does not produce 30 kWh battery packs anymore. The 40 kWh pack fits in the into the same spot and some conversion parts are used to bolt it in along with the HV connections to the HVAC, etc.

Yes. OP can look at NTB20-001: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10171230-0001.pdf.