Who is driving 2013 Leaf? EPA range is 75 miles!!!

[bobsfreeleaf]

I was really hoping to jump on 2013, but right now I do not see any good reason. Range is basically same, but I need range because no infrastructure. 13 S looks not as good as 12 SL and in fact is more expensive than 12 SL. I am very happy for people living in colder part of the country because they may gain some range during cold weather. Hope Nissan will offer similar deals on 13, but so far it appears best offered on S with default 6 kWh charger package is $249/mo with 2K down (so far I was not able to see any S with 3.3 kWh charger).

Hey Edmond: I thought the deal I took on my S model was nation wide. It was $199 a month with $2,000 up front. Now in California we are getting the $2,500 check several weeks after purchase, so it's nothing up front save the charger (which I am working out now). Agree the SL beats the S, but they cleared them out like a bad fish dinner. Anyway, I thought why wait, since the first $100 a month I will save on gas, and the next $100 will occur when SDGE resets my rates to Time of Use, lowering my average cost per KW significantly. Then there is the savings in maintenance and longer life from not driving my back up gas powered car (I typically buy a new $25k car every five or six years, so the longer I can keep that leaf, the longer I delay a repurchase).

However, I am lucky to be only 50 miles round trip from work, in San Diego, and have a back up Honda for the bad days. I am also lucky/unlucky to be paying crazy high KW rates.

 

[kovalb]

When I look at the EPA numbers they do not seem to add up.

-City mpg went from 106 to 130. A 22.6% improvement.
-Hwy mpg went from 92 to 102. A 10.9% improvement.
-Range went from 73 to 75 miles. A 2.7% improvement.

My understanding is that the battery pack holds the same amount of energy. I wonder if the EPA didn't change something about how they calculate the range?

 

[Stoaty]

When I look at the EPA numbers they do not seem to add up.

-City mpg went from 106 to 130. A 22.6% improvement.
-Hwy mpg went from 92 to 102. A 10.9% improvement.
-Range went from 73 to 75 miles. A 2.7% improvement.

My understanding is that the battery pack holds the same amount of energy. I wonder if the EPA didn't change something about how they calculate the range?

Yes, they did. They used a 5 cycle test instead of the 2 cycle test used previously.

 

[TonyWilliams]

However, I am lucky to be only 50 miles round trip from work, in San Diego, and have a back up Honda for the bad days. I am also lucky/unlucky to be paying crazy high KW rates.

Be sure to pay the extra few dollars per month for 15,000 annual miles, since you will likely go way over 12,000 miles/year.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

However, I am lucky to be only 50 miles round trip from work, in San Diego, and have a back up Honda for the bad days. I am also lucky/unlucky to be paying crazy high KW rates.

Be sure to pay the extra few dollars per month for 15,000 annual miles, since you will likely go way over 12,000 miles/year.

12k is fine. I am only planning on driving the leaf a max of 75% of the time. That should equate to the really cold, rainy, or really hot days pretty well. Did I mention I have another car. Thx, Bob

 

[abasile]

12k is fine. I am only planning on driving the leaf a max of 75% of the time. That should equate to the really cold, rainy, or really hot days pretty well. Did I mention I have another car. Thx, Bob

Before I got my LEAF, I thought I might drive it about 8k miles per year. Here I am, at 30k miles and not even two years yet, and we have a barely ever used ICE car. After getting used to the LEAF, it's hard to go back to gasoline...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

However, I am lucky to be only 50 miles round trip from work, in San Diego, and have a back up Honda for the bad days. I am also lucky/unlucky to be paying crazy high KW rates.

Be sure to pay the extra few dollars per month for 15,000 annual miles, since you will likely go way over 12,000 miles/year.

12k is fine. I am only planning on driving the leaf a max of 75% of the time. That should equate to the really cold, rainy, or really hot days pretty well. Did I mention I have another car. Thx, Bob

those words may come back to haunt you. i also have another car...hate driving it to be quite honest with you. i go thru great lengths to avoid driving it. its an "EV thing" it sneaks up on you... its very subtle but before you know it, you are hooked. addicted... its a terrible thing.

 

[Jay]

Anybody taken delivery of a 2013 yet?

Still no word on the "official" rating?

I was under the general impression that an EPA range rating was required prior to any sales.

Statik:
...Nissan got in contact with me this morning (on a Saturday morning no less), and that although these cars have what look to be official EPA/Monroney stickers that, Nissan is still saying they dont yet have the EPA rating, and "these are projected figures and not official."...

Random thing:

I'm still trying to get some answers from Nissan about the new testing proceedure and the 'officially' official numbers (which I am pretty sure just means the EPA rubber stamping what Nissan has achieved doing the test themselves), but I did speak to Travis Parman from Nissan Corporate Communications this morning before heading out to the CIAS (Canadian International Auto Show) and it was his understanding that "there’s a grace period where you can use projected/estimated numbers" while waiting on certification.

 

[vrwl]

12k is fine. I am only planning on driving the leaf a max of 75% of the time. That should equate to the really cold, rainy, or really hot days pretty well. Did I mention I have another car. Thx, Bob

Before I got my LEAF, I thought I might drive it about 8k miles per year. Here I am, at 30k miles and not even two years yet, and we have a barely ever used ICE car. After getting used to the LEAF, it's hard to go back to gasoline...

+1 Of course, since the LEAF is "my" car, I drive it exclusively all the time. But when my husband and I go out together on weekends or during the evenings, it's also used about 99% of the time for those trips as well. We definitely try to plan our "together" excursions so that we fully utilize my LEAF's available charge.

 

[edatoakrun]

Anybody taken delivery of a 2013 yet?

Still no word on the "official" rating?

I was under the general impression that an EPA range rating was required prior to any sales.

Statik:
...Nissan got in contact with me this morning (on a Saturday morning no less), and that although these cars have what look to be official EPA/Monroney stickers that, Nissan is still saying they dont yet have the EPA rating, and "these are projected figures and not official."...

Random thing:

I'm still trying to get some answers from Nissan about the new testing proceedure and the 'officially' official numbers (which I am pretty sure just means the EPA rubber stamping what Nissan has achieved doing the test themselves), but I did speak to Travis Parman from Nissan Corporate Communications this morning before heading out to the CIAS (Canadian International Auto Show) and it was his understanding that "there’s a grace period where you can use projected/estimated numbers" while waiting on certification.

So BEV manufactures produce their own EPA range numbers, just like ICEV manufactures do for MPG?

That suggests a new conspiracy theory:

Maybe the evil forces at Nissan are intentionally understating the range of the 2013, so that even most 2013 MY Phoenix LEAFs in 2018 will still get over "70%" of the EPA range at freeway speeds, and thus not be eligible for repair under the capacity warranty...

 

[RegGuheert]

When I look at the EPA numbers they do not seem to add up.

-City mpg went from 106 to 130. A 22.6% improvement.
-Hwy mpg went from 92 to 102. A 10.9% improvement.
-Range went from 73 to 75 miles. A 2.7% improvement.

My understanding is that the battery pack holds the same amount of energy. I wonder if the EPA didn't change something about how they calculate the range?

They did, but keep in mind that charger efficiency goes up when you move to a 6.6kW charger and reduce the power required to circulate coolant. This improves the MPGe numbers but it does not improve the range at all.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

12k is fine. I am only planning on driving the leaf a max of 75% of the time. That should equate to the really cold, rainy, or really hot days pretty well. Did I mention I have another car. Thx, Bob[/quote]

those words may come back to haunt you. i also have another car...hate driving it to be quite honest with you. i go thru great lengths to avoid driving it. its an "EV thing" it sneaks up on you... its very subtle but before you know it, you are hooked. addicted... its a terrible thing. [/quote]

Thanks for the tip. I really look forward to getting "hooked". I would love to take it to the next level, too: Solar palels and all (how handy would that be for the Zombie apocalypse! :shock: !). However, being realistic about the vehicle's limitations (and mine), I am going to drive it opportunistically. I don't want to be that guy who stretched it, going 40 on the freeway, trying to make it home. So, a two car scenario works great for me. Leases do suck (in so many ways), but I think it is a brilliant solution to mainstreaming E.V's. At 199 bucks a month (even tho only 12,000 miles a year) this is a free second car; so why wouldn't every yuppie on my block want one? Take care, Bob

 

[kovalb]

When I look at the EPA numbers they do not seem to add up.

-City mpg went from 106 to 130. A 22.6% improvement.
-Hwy mpg went from 92 to 102. A 10.9% improvement.
-Range went from 73 to 75 miles. A 2.7% improvement.

My understanding is that the battery pack holds the same amount of energy. I wonder if the EPA didn't change something about how they calculate the range?

Yes, they did. They used a 5 cycle test instead of the 2 cycle test used previously.

Wouldn't they have used the same 5 cycle test for both economy and range?

 

[kovalb]

When I look at the EPA numbers they do not seem to add up.

-City mpg went from 106 to 130. A 22.6% improvement.
-Hwy mpg went from 92 to 102. A 10.9% improvement.
-Range went from 73 to 75 miles. A 2.7% improvement.

My understanding is that the battery pack holds the same amount of energy. I wonder if the EPA didn't change something about how they calculate the range?

They did, but keep in mind that charger efficiency goes up when you move to a 6.6kW charger and reduce the power required to circulate coolant. This improves the MPGe numbers but it does not improve the range at all.

OK, I agree that would have an effect. However how much overhead efficiency do you think the 6.6 would buy? The total overhead for the 3.3 is on the order of 15%. Even if that were cut in half it would not be enough to account for the difference.

 

[surfingslovak]

OK, I agree that would have an effect. However how much overhead efficiency do you think the 6.6 would buy? The total overhead for the 3.3 is on the order of 15%. Even if that were cut in half it would not be enough to account for the difference.

These are all just educated guesses, but it's fun nonetheless. Ray computed the average of city and highway miles a while ago, which I corrected with wall energy draw of 25.5 kWh measured during the 2011 EPA test cycle. The resulting 2013 EPA estimate was 84 miles.

We don't have to guess at the efficiency improvement of the charger: the fuel cost estimate on the Monroney sticker speaks a clear language. Energy draw from the wall will be reduced by about 10% ($500 vs $561 in 2011/2012). So, if you used Ray's method and corrected it by a factor of 0.8912, you will get approximately 74.9 miles. That's pretty close for an educated guess, wouldn't you say?

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

ITS HERE, ITS HERE, ITS, ITS, ITS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just got a call from my dealer. My S model is in the dealership. I am going NOW to sign the lease. They have not prepped it yet, but I will snap a pic or two, anyway. He said it was the first S model in San Diego County. I thought I had to wait 3 weeks. This is fun ..... Thx, Bob

 

[jimmyz80]

The first 2013s have landed in Cary, NC -- a silver SL and a slate S. Unfortunately neither is the black SL I have on order.

 

[TonyWilliams]

ITS HERE, ITS HERE, ITS, ITS, ITS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just got a call from my dealer. My S model is in the dealership. I am going NOW to sign the lease. They have not prepped it yet, but I will snap a pic or two, anyway. He said it was the first S model in San Diego County. I thought I had to wait 3 weeks. This is fun ..... Thx, Bob

What dealer /salesman?

Congrats!

 

[vrwl]

ITS HERE, ITS HERE, ITS, ITS, ITS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just got a call from my dealer. My S model is in the dealership. I am going NOW to sign the lease. They have not prepped it yet, but I will snap a pic or two, anyway. He said it was the first S model in San Diego County. I thought I had to wait 3 weeks. This is fun ..... Thx, Bob

Congrats! How exciting for you! Hope you love your new LEAF as much as I love my older one.

 

[Iowa92x]

A pair of 2013s are on tap here in Des Moines, IA. Will take one for a spin next Saturday, holler if any questions or need pics when I do the tire kick.