Why do you want QC charging for the Leaf?

[ztanos]

:roll: Do I really have to explain this?

Ok, the reason there's gas stations everywhere is because the NISSAN SOLD 24 TIMES AS MANY ROUGE'S THAN LEAFS LAST MONTH. One single model of car, I didn't mention the Camry, which Toyota sold 80 times as many of, or the Accord or Malibu at 60 times. Gas stations compete, sure, but they also turn a profit. L3 can't turn a profit, and making them compete with each other won't help that.

We'll go with that being the only reason!!!! :roll: Sure. Had nothing to do with the fact that it was the major mode of transportation for over 100 years now.

Then why did you ask the question in the first place? Did you realize the answers after posting? :lol:

My initial statement was a moment of facetiousness, sorry. Didn't realize you didn't have a sense of humor. I never stated a "question" as you said. I was making a statement, just like you always do. Having a huge head start the last 100+ years has helped gas stations become prevalent everywhere. If the electric car revolution had taken off 100 years ago instead of gas, it would be the other way around. But it didn't, they fizzled and gas took over as the major form of automation.

 

[ztanos]

For L2 to provide anything like the flexibility of L3, you'd need them to be practically everywhere so that someone like me could plug in at each random stop I make and even then there are days when I'd like to drive longer than L2 will let me no matter how many of them are out there. L2 is cheap enough to be left to the private sector, L3 is what really deserves the public funds! If you ever get a chance to use a quick charging network, you eyes will be opened... it draws crowds. L2 makes EV's look like lame ducks.

Why does L3 need to be everywhere? You bought a city car. It's not often that city drivers need more than 100 miles in a day and very few folks are buying despite the fact that there's 1 big'mo for every 100 Leafs on the road. If the big'mo is so beneficial, and since it's a city car, how many more do you need? Sure, it's a bit of an inconvenience to drive 10 miles out of your way to get to a big'mo, but it's a city car and the West coast is full of L2. Use one, get 10MPHC and get on with your day.

If you don't want to opportunity charge then don't, but don't expect that the government is going to continue line the streets with big'mo's because you might need one.

So either we need more than 100 miles or we don't. Which is it? You sure are wishy washy.

 

[ztanos]

I guess everybody will just have to learn to disagree with Dan. The "magic" SAE plug will cut your charge times in half while allowing you to drive farther. :lol: But you are doing this in only 1 state, California, in either a car (GM) that will compete annually in sales with a car he laughs at (Mitsu), or a car that will more than likely cost around what the Tesla model S costs, which will most likely make them, also, not very productive annually. Which would you choose if you had the choice?

Huh? Are you the same person that was mad because I didn't acknowledge that you didn't live on the West coast - as if I care where you live.

I've never said the SAE Combo was going to cut charge times in half, but as it's currently spec'd it could be faster. I've also said that I don't think either plug is good enough to convince the mainstream to buy.

And, no, I don't laugh at the Mitsubishi sales numbers, I laugh at those of you who cling to it's 80 cars/month average as proof that there's another U.S. car using the big'mo because the Leaf's sales numbers keep falling.

I get that Mitsu sales aren't great, but neither will the "Spark" be that great. The ICEd version of the spark isn't great, what makes you think the EV version with more limitations is going to be better? Again, you mention me bringing up which coast I live on. It's funny. Your mistype and lack of affirmation of said mistype is why I kept bringing it up. I initially made a post with questions about your mistaken post and you ignored it, so I snipped and paraphrased it to continually try and get a response. Finally, after a week of questioning you responded that you made a mistake. Great, I didn't realize it, I was looking for actual information and had thought that you "finally" had something useful. My mistake on thinking you were actually a human being worth listening to.

 

[DANandNAN]

My initial statement was a moment of facetiousness, sorry. Didn't realize you didn't have a sense of humor. I never stated a "question" as you said. I was making a statement, just like you always do. Having a huge head start the last 100+ years has helped gas stations become prevalent everywhere. If the electric car revolution had taken off 100 years ago instead of gas, it would be the other way around. But it didn't, they fizzled and gas took over as the major form of automation.

When you put a question mark at the end of a sentence people may think you're asking a question. If you want to be sarcastic you should try adding a smilie.

 

[DANandNAN]

Again, you mention me bringing up which coast I live on. It's funny. Your mistype and lack of affirmation of said mistype is why I kept bringing it up. I initially made a post with questions about your mistaken post and you ignored it, so I snipped and paraphrased it to continually try and get a response. Finally, after a week of questioning you responded that you made a mistake. Great, I didn't realize it, I was looking for actual information and had thought that you "finally" had something useful. My mistake on thinking you were actually a human being worth listening to.

You brought it up every time! Yet didn't bother mentioning why you were doing so. Jeez! What was I supposed to do? You expect me to appologize or correct something but won't tell me what? Talk about passive aggressive. Jeez. And, now I'm not a human being worth being listened to? Hoooollyy Coooowww what is going on here?

Should I send you flowers? :lol: <---- Sentence that ends in a question mark, that's sarcastic so I added a smilie

 

[GoingGreener]

I posted early on this thread, hoping that EV owners (having/not having the QC port) can experience quick charging. I think it's great and don't know anyone yet who wouldn't love it to be available. Now I know first hand, that non-EV owners can be affected too.

A couple of days ago, I was driving on a 3-lane one-way street nearby Moscone Convention Center in San Francisco. I was in the right lane in preparation to turn a few blocks ahead. A driver in the middle lane had his front passenger window open when he rolled up alongside. He yelled over, "I LOVE that car!" The signal light was soon to turn green, so I gave him my huge EV bliss smile and a big thumbs up. His eyes were filled with enthusiasm, so I rolled down my window. He continued to say, "In Oregon, there's these chargers that'll charge it in 20 mins!" I said, "Oregon is probably the leader now in having the most quick chargers! But, we DO have 3 in the Bay Area." The light turns green... and LOL, he asks, "Where?! Are they available to everyone?" So, as we proceed along (don't want to get those behind us angry), I yell out the locations. LOL, I didn't even get a chance to welcome him to SF, CA! I'm certain he'll be an EV owner soon and available QC is part of the equation.

I also want to say, 20 mins at a QC is not a long time to charge an EV. In SF, gasoline tends to be more expensive than other places, so alot of drivers try to time their fill ups at Costco (usually cheaper than other stations) with their shopping trips. Often, the lines upon arriving to get the ICE vehicle to the pump and finish up would take the same 20 mins.

 

[ztanos]

Again, you mention me bringing up which coast I live on. It's funny. Your mistype and lack of affirmation of said mistype is why I kept bringing it up. I initially made a post with questions about your mistaken post and you ignored it, so I snipped and paraphrased it to continually try and get a response. Finally, after a week of questioning you responded that you made a mistake. Great, I didn't realize it, I was looking for actual information and had thought that you "finally" had something useful. My mistake on thinking you were actually a human being worth listening to.

You brought it up every time! Yet didn't bother mentioning why you were doing so. Jeez! What was I supposed to do? You expect me to appologize or correct something but won't tell me what? Talk about passive aggressive. Jeez. And, now I'm not a human being worth being listened to? Hoooollyy Coooowww what is going on here?

Should I send you flowers? :lol: <---- Sentence that ends in a question mark, that's sarcastic so I added a smilie

*sigh* I give up, your anti-logic just makes so much more sense than normal logic. My "obvious" remark about gas stations that had a question mark was indeed a question. You're so correct it is funny. Good luck with that "logic" in the future. I see you have completely swayed everyone on this forum. Shoot I see you have swayed even a handful of people. GM is the end-all be-all that you keep making it out to be. The fully electric Volt selling more money than the LEAF is a complete comparison that is apples-to-apples. Do I think that the Volt is better for the long distance commute? (notice the question mark) Sure. Do I think the LEAF is better for anything less than 200 miles with one DC? (There it is again) Yes, 100%. Will it take longer? (ooh look, one more time) Yes, but an extra 30-45 (Still not the hour that you spoke of earlier) won't bother me. You don't seem to like the fact that EV's aren't where they will be in the future. We get it, they aren't able to go farther. They need to go farther. We should wait and not help the movement by making sure that we have a base infrastructure. I do agree with you that the government shouldn't be paying for these, but then I don't think the government should be paying for gas either. Your points are the same even when other information is given, you use hokey numbers that seem to be pulled out of imaginaryland, and you get combative about posts that aren't even directed towards you and refuse to take ownership on your lazyness. Maybe if you read the posts that are asking you direct questions and answer them the first time, you won't have a problem if you can't figure out the reiteration of said question. Good day.

 

[garsh]

In my case, it saves me from using my 25mpg ICE

The masses will look at your scenario and say, "heck with that, I'll stick with an ICE that I can fill in 5 min."

Once you've committed to owning an EV... sure, you want chargers everywhere for the added convenience to you personally.

I'll keep crossing my fingers, hoping that battery technology significantly improves in the next several years to where we have (reasonably priced) 300-mile range EVs. Then this becomes less of an issue.

 

[LEAFfan]

Neither is ideal, but most folks can live within the 40-45 mile range and when they can't the Volt has the on-board generator to keep it going.

LOL, an on-board generator? The one GM originally said didn't drive the wheels, but just charged the battery pack? Let's call it what it is...it's a Premium gasoline engine. I think it is pretty hilarious how owners and sales people still call it a 'generator'. It's a gas engine that pollutes our environment. It makes no difference how many miles it can go, when it uses gasoline, it pollutes.

 

[LEAFfan]

Well with QC you suddenly have an unlimited range EV. What's not to like???

+1! And I will LOVE those 25 minute breaks after driving for an hour and a half. (Yes, 1 1/2 hours because I won't be driving 75mph). After using the restroom, getting something to drink and eat, using the cellphone, etc., the time will fly!

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

the gas stations are not simply profit making, the entire infrastructure for gas is heavily subsidized and that's the only reason gas stations are profitable... and it's worth it, because it is integral to national security/economy that we have cheap energy... and it's time to begin easing off of gas and shift the subsidy to a new source of now less expensive energy for so many reasons I've lost count. QC's will never be profitable if taken out of context with the entire picture of the fantastic economy of doing most of the charging from home. As a package, QC's and home L2 are incredibly economical, especially when taking into account that much of the energy used to charge vehicles at night would have gone to waste anyway. Again, the amount of money you are worried about is peanuts compared to the subsidy going to gas and oil every minute!!

...You can't compare a profit producing gas station with a gigantic money loosing big'mo station. Yes, there are gas stations everywhere, the demand is there and they make money...

 

[GoingGreener]

Well said GaslessInSeattle!
x10

the gas stations are not simply profit making, the entire infrastructure for gas is heavily subsidized and that's the only reason gas stations are profitable... and it's worth it, because it is integral to national security/economy that we have cheap energy... and it's time to begin easing off of gas and shift the subsidy to a new source of now less expensive energy for so many reasons I've lost count. QC's will never be profitable if taken out of context with the entire picture of the fantastic economy of doing most of the charging from home. As a package, QC's and home L2 are incredibly economical, especially when taking into account that much of the energy used to charge vehicles at night would have gone to waste anyway. Again, the amount of money you are worried about is peanuts compared to the subsidy going to gas and oil every minute!!

...You can't compare a profit producing gas station with a gigantic money loosing big'mo station. Yes, there are gas stations everywhere, the demand is there and they make money...

 

[LEAFfan]

Nobody wants to wait 30 minutes when they can refill a tank in 5.

Wow! Interesting how you can speak for everyone that uses QC. The truth is, there are drivers, including me that would much rather wait for a QC than even one minute at a gas station. I do realize though that some people would rather give their money to Big Oil, foreign countries, and pollute our planet with filth and noise.

 

[LEAFfan]

DanandNan, you keep posting about the $50K QC stations being subsidized by our govt. (stimulus monies). Would it make you happier to know that Nissan is going to put a less than $10K QC in all of it's Nissan LEAF dealers within a few months? They won't be using any govt. stimulus monies and it will make it much easier to travel longer distances. :mrgreen:

 

[SolPower]

Garsh-darn, nobody wants to be considered a Nobody.

Somebody is very happy to have the privilege of driving leading edge EV technology that can get a 80% charge in the time it takes for a relaxing coffee break.

Give Somebody a break.

Nobody's hurry has to Somebody's our worry.

 

[davewill]

... I'll keep crossing my fingers, hoping that battery technology significantly improves in the next several years to where we have (reasonably priced) 300-mile range EVs. Then this becomes less of an issue.

You couldn't be more wrong. Your 300 mile EV will need QC more than EVER. Otherwise you'd have to stop overnight to charge every time you ran the battery out.

 

[garsh]

You couldn't be more wrong. Your 300 mile EV will need QC more than EVER.

I agree! For a 300-mile EV, QC charging starts to make sense! You drive for 5-6 hours, then need to charge. But by that point, you probably also need to eat. QC charge while you're eating. I just don't think QC charging is all that useful in the Leaf for most of the car-buying public.

And I'm sorry, LEAFfan, I was trying to keep myself from using "everybody" when I meant "a majority of the car-buying public", but I wasn't paying enough attention and let a few slip by. Please forgive the oversight, and if you don't mind, make that little mental substitution as you re-read my posts.

 

[DANandNAN]

Neither is ideal, but most folks can live within the 40-45 mile range and when they can't the Volt has the on-board generator to keep it going.

LOL, an on-board generator? The one GM originally said didn't drive the wheels, but just charged the battery pack? Let's call it what it is...it's a Premium gasoline engine. I think it is pretty hilarious how owners and sales people still call it a 'generator'. It's a gas engine that pollutes our environment. It makes no difference how many miles it can go, when it uses gasoline, it pollutes.

Not to be rude, but you do know how generators work right? And, you do know the differences between them and engines that throttle up and down continuously and are connected to the gas peddle. I ask because the Volt's generator doesn't throttle up and down, it's tuned for maximum efficiency while maintaining relatively low RPM just like the generator you may have in your garage, and cuts off once a charge is sufficient - no ICE turns off it's engine at 75MPH to be more efficient. And, the Volt's on-board generator isn't connected to the peddle. The engine operates based on SOC. But, yes it does use premium fuel to get us 42MPG. And, yes, everything pollutes, we just try to do the best we can with what's available.

 

[LEAFfan]

Neither is ideal, but most folks can live within the 40-45 mile range and when they can't the Volt has the on-board generator to keep it going.

LOL, an on-board generator? The one GM originally said didn't drive the wheels, but just charged the battery pack? Let's call it what it is...it's a Premium gasoline engine. I think it is pretty hilarious how owners and sales people still call it a 'generator'. It's a gas engine that pollutes our environment. It makes no difference how many miles it can go, when it uses gasoline, it pollutes.

Not to be rude, but you do know how generators work right? And, you do know the differences between them and engines that throttle up and down continuously and are connected to the gas peddle. I ask because the Volt's generator doesn't throttle up and down And, the Volt's on-board generator isn't connected to the peddle.

Not to be rude, but you do know how a gasoline engine works, right? You do know the difference between a generator and the car's gasoline engine? If you believe that the gas engine in the Volt doesn't DRIVE the wheels and isn't connected to the gas pedal, then you're spreading untruths and ignorance just like GM did before it was released. At least GM now admits that their so-called 'generator' (which is really a gas engine) does indeed drive the wheels, and not just to charge the battery pack. So I'm not buying your condescending BS.

 

[DANandNAN]

the gas stations are not simply profit making, the entire infrastructure for gas is heavily subsidized and that's the only reason gas stations are profitable... and it's worth it, because it is integral to national security/economy that we have cheap energy... and it's time to begin easing off of gas and shift the subsidy to a new source of now less expensive energy for so many reasons I've lost count. QC's will never be profitable if taken out of context with the entire picture of the fantastic economy of doing most of the charging from home. As a package, QC's and home L2 are incredibly economical, especially when taking into account that much of the energy used to charge vehicles at night would have gone to waste anyway. Again, the amount of money you are worried about is peanuts compared to the subsidy going to gas and oil every minute!!

Yes, they are profit making. How often do you see a gas station, from a major or semi-major brand, go out of business? Compare that to how many gas stations are built everyday. If they weren't profitable why build more?

QC are not economical or profitable in most places. If they were wouldn't they be everywhere? So instead the suggestion is the government add them to cities and/or highways because it's a help to an extremely small group of drivers (that won't pay for it) and because it's an incentive for new buyers (which it's not with sales down).

Just because the proposed spending is "peanuts" doesn't mean that it shouldn't be carefully considered. Waste in the name of waste isn't a good idea.