Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

[rcm4453]

^ The i-MiEV could be a perpetual motion machine and 99% of people would still want no part of it.

Exactly! They need to make compelling BEVs like Tesla is doing! It's like they go out of their way to make them so dorky/ugly, then they say very few want BEVs they all want ICEVs and PHEVS! I definitely made a huge compromise with my Leaf but I wanted a BEV and there's nothing else out there in this price range that's available in Minnesota. The average person wouldn't buy a Leaf if it got 200 miles per charge because of it's styling!

 

[Zythryn]

^ The i-MiEV could be a perpetual motion machine and 99% of people would still want no part of it.

Exactly! They need to make compelling BEVs like Tesla is doing! It's like they go out of their way to make them so dorky/ugly, then they say very few want BEVs they all want ICEVs and PHEVS! I definitely made a huge compromise with my Leaf but I wanted a BEV and there's nothing else out there in this price range that's available in Minnesota. The average person wouldn't buy a Leaf if it got 200 miles per charge because of it's styling!

While some people certainly feel that way, there are a lot of people that look at a vehicle as an appliance.
Those have little concern about the styling of a car.

The Leaf was number #1 on my list back in 2010, but the range, especially in MN winters, was insufficient.
The primary reason I bought/leased a Tesla was that it had the range I needed.
Today, if Nissan had a 200 mile Leaf I would still prefer the Tesla, but the reason isn't the styling (although I do prefer the style of the Tesla, so it may be down at the #6-8th reasons).

 

[rcm4453]

^ The i-MiEV could be a perpetual motion machine and 99% of people would still want no part of it.

Exactly! They need to make compelling BEVs like Tesla is doing! It's like they go out of their way to make them so dorky/ugly, then they say very few want BEVs they all want ICEVs and PHEVS! I definitely made a huge compromise with my Leaf but I wanted a BEV and there's nothing else out there in this price range that's available in Minnesota. The average person wouldn't buy a Leaf if it got 200 miles per charge because of it's styling!

While some people certainly feel that way, there are a lot of people that look at a vehicle as an appliance.
Those have little concern about the styling of a car.

The Leaf was number #1 on my list back in 2010, but the range, especially in MN winters, was insufficient.
The primary reason I bought/leased a Tesla was that it had the range I needed.
Today, if Nissan had a 200 mile Leaf I would still prefer the Tesla, but the reason isn't the styling (although I do prefer the style of the Tesla, so it may be down at the #6-8th reasons).

Well if you look at really ugly/bad styling in ICEVs you see the same poor sales numbers even though an ICEV doesn't have range limitations. Out of all the forums I've been on, all the reviews and user posts I've read almost all say the Leaf is too ugly to consider. My whole point was that range isn't the only thing considered when people purchase a BEV. As I said in my earlier post I think there's more then one reason why BEVs are losing out to PHEVs and it's not just range. PHEVs generally have better styling like most ICEVs and are usually available nationwide. If there were BEVs out there that had better styling, decent performance and nationwide availability at a good price they would be selling as well as PHEVs.

The Tesla Model 3 introduction proves that BEVs can sell as well as PHEVs because its stylish, will perform well and have a good price point. Granted it will have a 200 mile range but that same car would have sold very well even a couple years ago in a 100 mile range version!

 

[GRA]

Exactly! They need to make compelling BEVs like Tesla is doing! It's like they go out of their way to make them so dorky/ugly, then they say very few want BEVs they all want ICEVs and PHEVS! I definitely made a huge compromise with my Leaf but I wanted a BEV and there's nothing else out there in this price range that's available in Minnesota. The average person wouldn't buy a Leaf if it got 200 miles per charge because of it's styling!

While some people certainly feel that way, there are a lot of people that look at a vehicle as an appliance.
Those have little concern about the styling of a car.

The Leaf was number #1 on my list back in 2010, but the range, especially in MN winters, was insufficient.
The primary reason I bought/leased a Tesla was that it had the range I needed.
Today, if Nissan had a 200 mile Leaf I would still prefer the Tesla, but the reason isn't the styling (although I do prefer the style of the Tesla, so it may be down at the #6-8th reasons).

Well if you look at really ugly/bad styling in ICEVs you see the same poor sales numbers even though an ICEV doesn't have range limitations. Out of all the forums I've been on, all the reviews and user posts I've read almost all say the Leaf is too ugly to consider. My whole point was that range isn't the only thing considered when people purchase a BEV. As I said in my earlier post I think there's more then one reason why BEVs are losing out to PHEVs and it's not just range. PHEVs generally have better styling like most ICEVs and are usually available nationwide. If there were BEVs out there that had better styling, decent performance and nationwide availability at a good price they would be selling as well as PHEVs.

The Tesla Model 3 introduction proves that BEVs can sell as well as PHEVs because its stylish, will perform well and have a good price point. Granted it will have a 200 mile range but that same car would have sold very well even a couple years ago in a 100 mile range version!

Sure, looks are primary to some (although not to the typical CUV/SUV owner), but not others. But here's an example of a country where PHEVs have overtaken BEVs in sales, despite the latter having previously won the sales race hands down, and both types being available nationwide. Via IEVS:

Norway’s Love Of BEVs Switches To PHEV?

http://insideevs.com/norways-love-of-bevs-switches-to-phev/

Quickly growing plug-in hybrid sales in Norway reached in April record of 2,224, culminating its pursuit by overtaking all-electric car sales (1,991 new registrations).

It’s an interesting switch, especially that year ago it seemed that BEVs would always be beyond reach, thanks to generous incentives. . . .

What are the sales leaders? the Outlander PHEV and the Golf GTE. Previously, the Model S, LEAF and/or e-Golf have all been at the top.

As for what range the U.S. general public demands from a BEV, via IEVS:

“Consumer Views on EVs-National Benchmark Report” – Results Are In

http://insideevs.com/consumer-views-on-plug-in-electric-vehicles-national-benchmark-report-results-are-in/

How many miles would a pure electric vehicle that could not be powered by gasoline need to travel on a single charge for you to be satisfied by the range and consider purchasing or leasing the vehicle?

http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/44.png

People's views of a car's capabilities have been shaped by ICEs, and they aren't inclined to accept less (while paying more). Any AFV tech will ultimately need to provide ICE comparable range at comparable cost to replace ICEs, barring a total change in societal expectations.

 

[rcm4453]

While some people certainly feel that way, there are a lot of people that look at a vehicle as an appliance.
Those have little concern about the styling of a car.

The Leaf was number #1 on my list back in 2010, but the range, especially in MN winters, was insufficient.
The primary reason I bought/leased a Tesla was that it had the range I needed.
Today, if Nissan had a 200 mile Leaf I would still prefer the Tesla, but the reason isn't the styling (although I do prefer the style of the Tesla, so it may be down at the #6-8th reasons).

Well if you look at really ugly/bad styling in ICEVs you see the same poor sales numbers even though an ICEV doesn't have range limitations. Out of all the forums I've been on, all the reviews and user posts I've read almost all say the Leaf is too ugly to consider. My whole point was that range isn't the only thing considered when people purchase a BEV. As I said in my earlier post I think there's more then one reason why BEVs are losing out to PHEVs and it's not just range. PHEVs generally have better styling like most ICEVs and are usually available nationwide. If there were BEVs out there that had better styling, decent performance and nationwide availability at a good price they would be selling as well as PHEVs.

The Tesla Model 3 introduction proves that BEVs can sell as well as PHEVs because its stylish, will perform well and have a good price point. Granted it will have a 200 mile range but that same car would have sold very well even a couple years ago in a 100 mile range version!

Sure, looks are primary to some (although not to the typical CUV/SUV owner), but not others. But here's an example of a country where PHEVs have overtaken BEVs in sales, despite the latter having previously won the sales race hands down, and both types being available nationwide. Via IEVS:

Norway’s Love Of BEVs Switches To PHEV?

http://insideevs.com/norways-love-of-bevs-switches-to-phev/

Quickly growing plug-in hybrid sales in Norway reached in April record of 2,224, culminating its pursuit by overtaking all-electric car sales (1,991 new registrations).

It’s an interesting switch, especially that year ago it seemed that BEVs would always be beyond reach, thanks to generous incentives. . . .

What are the sales leaders? the Outlander PHEV and the Golf GTE. Previously, the Model S, LEAF and/or e-Golf have all been at the top.

As for what range the U.S. general public demands from a BEV, via IEVS:

“Consumer Views on EVs-National Benchmark Report” – Results Are In

http://insideevs.com/consumer-views-on-plug-in-electric-vehicles-national-benchmark-report-results-are-in/

How many miles would a pure electric vehicle that could not be powered by gasoline need to travel on a single charge for you to be satisfied by the range and consider purchasing or leasing the vehicle?

http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/44.png

People's views of a car's capabilities have been shaped by ICEs, and they aren't inclined to accept less (while paying more). Any AFV tech will ultimately need to provide ICE comparable range at comparable cost to replace ICEs, barring a total change in societal expectations.

Well you can't necessarily compare the U.S. to Norway when it comes to BEVs and PHEVs. Plus those consumers views are not always the most accurate. Yes CUVs are quite popular right now but in case you haven't noticed most of them have very nice styling. Can't say the same for the BEVs in this country that have nationwide available except for Tesla. There's really nothing to argue because it's common sense. If you make a ugly/dorky BEV with mediocre performance it's not going to sell well in this country. If you make a PHEV with good styling at a good price it stands a better chance of outselling the dorky/ugly BEV.

I'm not really talking about the mainstream population here I'm talking about the people who are in the market for an AFC vehicle. When these people are choosing between a nice stylish PHEV that's available in their state at a decent price point or an ugly/dorky BEV which do you think they will most likely choose? If there were BEVs with the nice styling and performance of the Model 3 or even BEV style CUVs even in the 100 mile range I bet more would choose the BEV in this scenario. Bottom line is the ugly/dorky look isn't helping sales of BEVs in this country.

 

[GRA]

Sure, looks are primary to some (although not to the typical CUV/SUV owner), but not others. But here's an example of a country where PHEVs have overtaken BEVs in sales, despite the latter having previously won the sales race hands down, and both types being available nationwide. Via IEVS:

Norway’s Love Of BEVs Switches To PHEV?

http://insideevs.com/norways-love-of-bevs-switches-to-phev/

Quickly growing plug-in hybrid sales in Norway reached in April record of 2,224, culminating its pursuit by overtaking all-electric car sales (1,991 new registrations).

It’s an interesting switch, especially that year ago it seemed that BEVs would always be beyond reach, thanks to generous incentives. . . .

What are the sales leaders? the Outlander PHEV and the Golf GTE. Previously, the Model S, LEAF and/or e-Golf have all been at the top.

As for what range the U.S. general public demands from a BEV, via IEVS:

“Consumer Views on EVs-National Benchmark Report” – Results Are In

http://insideevs.com/consumer-views-on-plug-in-electric-vehicles-national-benchmark-report-results-are-in/

How many miles would a pure electric vehicle that could not be powered by gasoline need to travel on a single charge for you to be satisfied by the range and consider purchasing or leasing the vehicle?

http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/44.png

People's views of a car's capabilities have been shaped by ICEs, and they aren't inclined to accept less (while paying more). Any AFV tech will ultimately need to provide ICE comparable range at comparable cost to replace ICEs, barring a total change in societal expectations.

Well you can't necessarily compare the U.S. to Norway when it comes to BEVs and PHEVs. Plus those consumers views are not always the most accurate. Yes CUVs are quite popular right now but in case you haven't noticed most of them have very nice styling.

Nice styling? Only when compared to each other. They're all essentially tall, 2-box vehicles, with some more rounded off than others. I can't think of any (and I own a small CUV) that are as nice looking as the typical conventional sedan - the Model S and the Fusion are both nice, conventional looking sedans (I know, the S is a hatchback, but it has a sedan profile), and I doubt there are many people that would point to any CUV/SUV and say it was better looking than either of them, or numerous other cars.

Can't say the same for the BEVs in this country that have nationwide available except for Tesla. There's really nothing to argue because it's common sense. If you make a ugly/dorky BEV with mediocre performance it's not going to sell well in this country. If you make a PHEV with good styling at a good price it stands a better chance of outselling the dorky/ugly BEV.

I'm not really talking about the mainstream population here I'm talking about the people who are in the market for an AFC vehicle. When these people are choosing between a nice stylish PHEV that's available in their state at a decent price point or an ugly/dorky BEV which do you think they will most likely choose? If there were BEVs with the nice styling and performance of the Model 3 or even BEV style CUVs even in the 100 mile range I bet more would choose the BEV in this scenario. Bottom line is the ugly/dorky look isn't helping sales of BEVs in this country.

The Ford Focus, IMO is the best looking BEV available, with the Fiat 500e running it a close second or maybe even ahead. The 500e is relatively successful saleswise, locally at least, even with Fiat's reputation for unreliability because of its aggressively cute (or is that cutely aggressive?) looks and brio, but both of them are outsold by the LEAF. It's the other features (limited range, lack of QC, limited cargo and/or pax space, lack of advertising) that keep their sales down.

The Fusion Energi and the small minivan-like C-Max Energi PHEVs both outsell the Focus, 500e and now even the LEAF in California (at least the Fusion Energi does, not sure about California C-Max Energi sales) as well as the rest of the country, judging by the number of Energis I see every day (and the rarity of Focus Electrics), despite their equally limited cargo space. The LEAF is unquestionably odd looking, but people opted for it over the much better looking Focus or 500e in California as well as elsewhere, both because it was first to market, and also because it provided some greater capability (QC, a bit more range, bigger, unimpeded cargo area). I forget which has better accel, but the Focus' and 500e's driving qualities are both better than the LEAF. If you were correct that the typical AFV customer valued looks over practical issues, LEAF sales would trail the Focus Electric/500e, but the reverse is true.

Undoubtedly, a good-looking car has a built in advantage, AOTBE, and Toyota did themselves no favors in the European and U.S. markets with the looks of the new Prius and the even more fugly Mirai; maybe the Asian market(s) like their looks, but I suspect people here will be choosing them in spite of that. Lots of people find the Kia Soul's looks attractive (and lots also find it the reverse), but there's no doubt that a PHEV version would sell a lot better than the BEV has - any PEV manufacturer would be happy to have the Soul's (gas version) sales, as they sell as many each month as most BEVs do annually; actually, they often sell as many each month in the U.S. as the total sales of ALL PEVs. Again, some people make a judgement primarily on looks, but AFV purchasers (Tesla and the few ELR/Panamera buyers possibly aside) tend to value other issues higher.

 

[GRA]

June's U.S. affordable (sub-$40k base MSRP) PEV sales breakdown:

Total BEV/PHEV, 7,375
BEV, 2,419
PHEV, 4,856

So, affordable PHEV/BEV sales continues to run 2:1 in favor of PHEVs. I didn't bother to add up sales of the more expensive cars, but including all the Teslas/BMWs/Mercedes/Cadillacs etc. BEVs are ahead in U.S. total PEV sales owing solely to the skew provided by Tesla, which continues to hold up the rest of the BEV market by selling more than twice as many cars as all other BEVs combined. IEVS estimated U.S. Tesla sales in June: Model S 3,700; Model X, 2,145. Total 5,845.

In Europe, PHEVs have taken the total sales lead over BEVs regardless of price, as they sold 40,300 (52%) vs. BEVs 37,100.

 

[rcm4453]

June's U.S. affordable (sub-$40k base MSRP) PEV sales breakdown:

Total BEV/PHEV, 7,375
BEV, 2,419
PHEV, 4,856

So, affordable PHEV/BEV sales continues to run 2:1 in favor of PHEVs. I didn't bother to add up sales of the more expensive cars, but including all the Teslas/BMWs/Mercedes/Cadillacs etc. BEVs are ahead in U.S. total PEV sales owing solely to the skew provided by Tesla, which continues to hold up the rest of the BEV market by selling more than twice as many cars as all other BEVs combined. IEVS estimated U.S. Tesla sales in June: Model S 3,700; Model X, 2,145. Total 5,845.

In Europe, PHEVs have taken the total sales lead over BEVs regardless of price, as they sold 40,300 (52%) vs. BEVs 37,100.

The fact that Tesla BEVs are doing so well further proves the point I made above about ugly/dorky BEVs vs. sexy/stylish ones. Give the consumer a stylish BEV with decent range and good performance and they won't be forced to buy the PHEV instead. Why won't anyone other then Tesla make BEVs like this?

 

[TomT]

I beleive that this is but one of the reasons why the Gen 2 Volt is selling so well and the Leaf is not...
But then again, no one would EVER call the Prius - any generation, including the latest - attractive and it sells like hotcakes...

Well if you look at really ugly/bad styling in ICEVs you see the same poor sales numbers even though an ICEV doesn't have range limitations. Out of all the forums I've been on, all the reviews and user posts I've read almost all say the Leaf is too ugly to consider. My whole point was that range isn't the only thing considered when people purchase a BEV.

 

[lorenfb]

The fact that Tesla BEVs are doing so well further proves the point I made above about ugly/dorky BEVs vs. sexy/stylish ones. Give the consumer a stylish BEV with decent range and good performance and they won't be forced to buy the PHEV instead. Why won't anyone other then Tesla make BEVs like this?

Yes, that's a factor, but hardly a key factor for Tesla's appeal.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

June's U.S. affordable (sub-$40k base MSRP) PEV sales breakdown:

Total BEV/PHEV, 7,375
BEV, 2,419
PHEV, 4,856

So, affordable PHEV/BEV sales continues to run 2:1 in favor of PHEVs. I didn't bother to add up sales of the more expensive cars, but including all the Teslas/BMWs/Mercedes/Cadillacs etc. BEVs are ahead in U.S. total PEV sales owing solely to the skew provided by Tesla, which continues to hold up the rest of the BEV market by selling more than twice as many cars as all other BEVs combined. IEVS estimated U.S. Tesla sales in June: Model S 3,700; Model X, 2,145. Total 5,845.

In Europe, PHEVs have taken the total sales lead over BEVs regardless of price, as they sold 40,300 (52%) vs. BEVs 37,100.

The fact that Tesla BEVs are doing so well further proves the point I made above about ugly/dorky BEVs vs. sexy/stylish ones. Give the consumer a stylish BEV with decent range and good performance and they won't be forced to buy the PHEV instead. Why won't anyone other then Tesla make BEVs like this?

in a word; not cost effective but then again that is the problem when you have to compete in a highly competitive mainstream market. Tesla has no real direct competition other than the high end luxury market which has its own cost factors to consider.

 

[rcm4453]

The fact that Tesla BEVs are doing so well further proves the point I made above about ugly/dorky BEVs vs. sexy/stylish ones. Give the consumer a stylish BEV with decent range and good performance and they won't be forced to buy the PHEV instead. Why won't anyone other then Tesla make BEVs like this?

Yes, that's a factor, but hardly a key factor for Tesla's appeal.

So let's pretend that Nissan, Toyota or Honda made a nice stylish BEV with good performance that looks like the Model 3. Let's say this car came out 2 years ago with around 110 miles of range. You can't tell me it wouldn't have sold WAY better then any of the BEVs we have now from the big auto companies. That's my whole point is that yes.....styling and performance matters more then you realize. Notice how almost all ICEVs that sell well have at a minimal, decent styling to appeal to the masses. It's almost as if they made the BEVs available today as dorky/butt ugly as possible to avoid selling them. If they made an ICE version of the LEAF that looked identical it wouldn't sell as well as the Altima, why do you suppose that is? It's pretty obvious to me! Same goes for GM, if they made the Malibu EV (or Cruze EV) instead of that dorky looking Spark EV it would have sold soooooo much better!

 

[rcm4453]

June's U.S. affordable (sub-$40k base MSRP) PEV sales breakdown:

Total BEV/PHEV, 7,375
BEV, 2,419
PHEV, 4,856

So, affordable PHEV/BEV sales continues to run 2:1 in favor of PHEVs. I didn't bother to add up sales of the more expensive cars, but including all the Teslas/BMWs/Mercedes/Cadillacs etc. BEVs are ahead in U.S. total PEV sales owing solely to the skew provided by Tesla, which continues to hold up the rest of the BEV market by selling more than twice as many cars as all other BEVs combined. IEVS estimated U.S. Tesla sales in June: Model S 3,700; Model X, 2,145. Total 5,845.

In Europe, PHEVs have taken the total sales lead over BEVs regardless of price, as they sold 40,300 (52%) vs. BEVs 37,100.

The fact that Tesla BEVs are doing so well further proves the point I made above about ugly/dorky BEVs vs. sexy/stylish ones. Give the consumer a stylish BEV with decent range and good performance and they won't be forced to buy the PHEV instead. Why won't anyone other then Tesla make BEVs like this?

in a word; not cost effective but then again that is the problem when you have to compete in a highly competitive mainstream market. Tesla has no real direct competition other than the high end luxury market which has its own cost factors to consider.

Cost effective? It wouldn't have cost anymore to make the LEAF look like a Altima or Maxima, something mainstream looking that people will actually buy!

 

[GRA]

The fact that Tesla BEVs are doing so well further proves the point I made above about ugly/dorky BEVs vs. sexy/stylish ones. Give the consumer a stylish BEV with decent range and good performance and they won't be forced to buy the PHEV instead. Why won't anyone other then Tesla make BEVs like this?

Yes, that's a factor, but hardly a key factor for Tesla's appeal.

So let's pretend that Nissan, Toyota or Honda made a nice stylish BEV with good performance that looks like the Model 3. Let's say this car came out 2 years ago with around 110 miles of range. You can't tell me it wouldn't have sold WAY better then any of the BEVs we have now from the big auto companies. That's my whole point is that yes.....styling and performance matters more then you realize. Notice how almost all ICEVs that sell well have at a minimal, decent styling to appeal to the masses. It's almost as if they made the BEVs available today as dorky/butt ugly as possible to avoid selling them. If they made an ICE version of the LEAF that looked identical it wouldn't sell as well as the Altima, why do you suppose that is? It's pretty obvious to me! Same goes for GM, if they made the Malibu EV (or Cruze EV) instead of that dorky looking Spark EV it would have sold soooooo much better!

As has been previously discussed, the LEAF outsells both the FFE and the 500e, both of which are much better (and more conventional) looking than it, so while looks matter, they usually don't override other factors for most people. The Model S sells well because it looks nice, but also because it has the best capabilities, and the people who are buying them operate in a very different cost/benefit universe than most people. OTOH, I've just seen my third Model X, and it remains just as awkward/homely looking to me as the prototype I saw. Hell, I think the LEAF is better looking, at least from front or rear - side view goes to the Model X.

 

[rcm4453]

Yes, that's a factor, but hardly a key factor for Tesla's appeal.

So let's pretend that Nissan, Toyota or Honda made a nice stylish BEV with good performance that looks like the Model 3. Let's say this car came out 2 years ago with around 110 miles of range. You can't tell me it wouldn't have sold WAY better then any of the BEVs we have now from the big auto companies. That's my whole point is that yes.....styling and performance matters more then you realize. Notice how almost all ICEVs that sell well have at a minimal, decent styling to appeal to the masses. It's almost as if they made the BEVs available today as dorky/butt ugly as possible to avoid selling them. If they made an ICE version of the LEAF that looked identical it wouldn't sell as well as the Altima, why do you suppose that is? It's pretty obvious to me! Same goes for GM, if they made the Malibu EV (or Cruze EV) instead of that dorky looking Spark EV it would have sold soooooo much better!

As has been previously discussed, the LEAF outsells both the FFE and the 500e, both of which are much better (and more conventional) looking than it, so while looks matter, they usually don't override other factors for most people. The Model S sells well because it looks nice, but also because it has the best capabilities, and the people who are buying them operate in a very different cost/benefit universe than most people. OTOH, I've just seen my third Model X, and it remains just as awkward/homely looking to me as the prototype I saw. Hell, I think the LEAF is better looking, at least from front or rear - side view goes to the Model X.

LEAF outsells the FFE and the 500e because it's available nationwide, it's not a compliance car like FFE and 500e. Look it's really easy, mainstream drivers prefer cars that look mainstream. There's a reason why Camrys, Accords, Altimas, Cruzes...etc look the way they do, to appeal to the masses as an acceptable styling. The LEAF does not have this type of styling which turns most people off that are considering a BEV. If Nissan made the LEAF look similar to the Altima it would have sold a lot better. Nissan even acknowledges this which is why they stated Gen 2 LEAF will have more mainstream styling.

 

[lorenfb]

If Nissan made the LEAF look similar to the Altima it would have sold a lot better.

That's your guess, i.e. "a lot better", right?

Nissan even acknowledges this which is why they stated Gen 2 LEAF will have more mainstream styling.

Where has Nissan stated or even implied a correlation between the Leaf's lack of sales and its not having
a "mainstream styling"? Or is this your own hypothetical conclusion based on what the Leaf 2 might be?

 

[Turnover]

I had a silver 2012 which looked much, much better than some lead acid battery vehicles we saw in Seattle. Once the range dropped to 79% it was replaced with a 2013 that got 25 miles more that the 2012 ever did and its sparkly white and looks fantastically better ! :lol:

 

[GRA]

As has been previously discussed, the LEAF outsells both the FFE and the 500e, both of which are much better (and more conventional) looking than it, so while looks matter, they usually don't override other factors for most people. The Model S sells well because it looks nice, but also because it has the best capabilities, and the people who are buying them operate in a very different cost/benefit universe than most people. OTOH, I've just seen my third Model X, and it remains just as awkward/homely looking to me as the prototype I saw. Hell, I think the LEAF is better looking, at least from front or rear - side view goes to the Model X.

LEAF outsells the FFE and the 500e because it's available nationwide, it's not a compliance car like FFE and 500e. Look it's really easy, mainstream drivers prefer cars that look mainstream. There's a reason why Camrys, Accords, Altimas, Cruzes...etc look the way they do, to appeal to the masses as an acceptable styling. The LEAF does not have this type of styling which turns most people off that are considering a BEV. If Nissan made the LEAF look similar to the Altima it would have sold a lot better. Nissan even acknowledges this which is why they stated Gen 2 LEAF will have more mainstream styling.

As I've also previously pointed out, the LEAF outsells the FFE and 500e in California as well, where all three are available. If availablility were the primary driver of sales, both cars should be outselling the LEAF here, and they don't even come close, although I see far more 500es than I do Focus' (Foci?).

BTW, I also see plenty of new 4th gen. Prius' here (the 2nd and 3rd gen Prius' are ubiquitous locally) , despite the near unanimous opinion (which i share) of U.S. and European auto journalists that the car's rear end is hideous. Apparently there are plenty of people who are willing to overlook that to get the car's other benefits. That being said, I don't doubt that it would sell even better if it weren't so awkward-looking.

 

[rcm4453]

If Nissan made the LEAF look similar to the Altima it would have sold a lot better.

That's your guess, i.e. "a lot better", right?

Nissan even acknowledges this which is why they stated Gen 2 LEAF will have more mainstream styling.

Where has Nissan stated or even implied a correlation between the Leaf's lack of sales and its not having
a "mainstream styling"? Or is this your own hypothetical conclusion based on what the Leaf 2 might be?

Well there are lots of articles on the web that state Nissan wants to go to a more mainstream styling with the Gen 2 LEAF here's one:


http://www.autonews.com/article/201...sans-next-evs:-more-mainstream-better-battery

In terms of styling, Nissan will keep the hatchback layout for the Leaf but seek a more mainstream design.

Mamoru Aoki, the Nissan brand’s global design chief, said EVs no longer need to grab attention by looking different. He cited the sleek Tesla Model S sedan.

“The current Leaf is aiming too much at an EV-like appearance,” Aoki said. “Tesla doesn’t look EV at all. The Tesla S just looks nice, very sporty, sleek, but very authentic.”

The next Leaf will keep certain cues denoting its electric nature, such as no grille aperture. But it will cleave more closely to the Nissan brand’s new unified design language.

 

[evnow]

Well there are lots of articles on the web that state Nissan wants to go to a more mainstream styling with the Gen 2 LEAF here's one:

In all the market research you see people talk about range and charging issues. Not about appearance.

My guess is a mainstream looking 84 mile Leaf would have sold - may be 10% - more than current leaf. Not a "lot better".