Will your next EV be a Leaf or another brand - why?

[GetOffYourGas]

My driving is rather bipolar. I take a lot of short trips - most days I travel less than 25 miles, with the ability to charge every 10-15 miles. But I also take a good amount of long trips - covering 600 miles in a weekend. The Leaf covers about 90% of my "trips" but only about 50% of my miles. I will probably keep it for a good long time, since the battery would have to degrade by >50% before it is significantly less useful to me. That could take 15-20 years here in my cold climate. When I do replace the Leaf, it will probably be with another Nissan, since they will probably have the best offering, but who really knows what will be available at that time...

My other car is a 2nd generation Honda Insight. When I replace it, it will definitely be something with a plug. My only real choice today is the C-Max Energi due to size - no, not the 5th seat, but the trunk space (19 cubic feet versus 10 cubic feet). The insight is still relatively new, though, and I am holding out for a Tesla "BlueStar". I am really hopeful that I can afford one by the time they are available - I have never purchased a car quite that expensive before, but it would be so nice to completely and totally ditch the gas engine - no more pumping gas, no more maintaining a gas powertrain, nothing.

 

[davewill]

I've been thinking seriously on this issue, and have come to the conclusion that it will probably be a LEAF. Reasons?

1. The LEAF's range works for me. Sometimes I have wished for a bit more, but day in and day out, it fits my lifestyle.
2. I hate to get into a compliance car, but if one of them shows itself to be an obviously better value than the LEAF, I'd consider it. They haven't so far.
3. QC is very nice, and LEAF is the only car seriously offering it over the next few years. (Besides Tesla, see #4)
4. The Tesla is completely out of my price comfort zone.

All that said, a Rav4EV is tempting for the increased range. However, I really don't want an SUV sized vehicle, and since Toyota doesn't have a lease I can live with, I'd be forced to buy when I'm not sure I want to.

The Volt is also a strong contender, and I could probably make my daily commute on battery, if I don't take side trips into account. But I have no reason to go there when LEAF works well for me.

 

[JimSouCal]

I hope Nissan listens to its customers, and uses customer feedback to design the next LEAF. If they do, then they probably will have me as a customer for life.

They are kind of losing me due to a lack of software interface upgrade for us gen 1 customers... I am kind of picky on service, and going long on market research and customer support. There seems to be a remaining sluggy car culture... I could be wrong. I will keep my LEAF as a relatively economical artifact of the first real EV in a national launch, and then look to what the market has to offer.

I'd seek a bettered range and performance options. Tesla seems to get the attention at the moment. NIssan might surprise... We'll see...

 

[Pipcecil]

I really depends when I get my next EV. If money was no question it would be a Tesla hands down. The LEAF here in Texas just has too much battery degredation for me to pick outright. Not even at the 2 year mark and down to 73% capacity. Thats a large chunk of range that is no longer available to me.

But if I wrecked my car today, I would probably get another LEAF just because the choices I have available aren't much better. I want a pure EV over a PHEV so that knocks out a chunk of cars. Add that the Spark EV, Rav4 EV, Honda Fit EV, and Fiat 500e are unavailable in Texas (yes I know I could circumvent it, but that would cause other issues like maintenece and repairs that I don't want to deal with). That leaves the Tesla, LEAF, smart fortwo ED, FFEV, and Mitsubishi i. The i and smart have less range so they are out. The Tesla is just too expensive. The only one that I would consider would be a FFEV, but its hard to justify a higher price for a smaller car, less range (when you compare the 100% EPA range), tiny trunk, and no QC (we have a good amount of QC in Dallas Fort Worth) for the battery cooling tradeoff.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

eNV200, if it's available by 11/25/2014.

 

[Foible]

I will look at what Nissan is offering when my Leaf lease is up. I didn't choose Nissan because they had the best electric car available in my area. I chose them because they had the only electric car available. This was three weeks ago and I couldn't find a Fiat or a Smart or a Rav 4 at any local dealer. Nissan had a knowledgeable salesman, a product with a proven track record, and most importantly, they had the car available for testing and leasing!

If Smart had cars ready at the much hyped test drive event on May 4th, I would probably be driving one of those instead of a Leaf. Now that I'm in a Leaf I'm glad that Smart screwed up.

 

[Nubo]

My lease expires in 2015; will see what's available but I'd be more than happy to get another LEAF if it compares favorably to the competition (should it ever materialize). I don't count compliance cars in that equation.

LEAF does have its problems but it's here, it's real, and it works pretty well for me. I like the room, performance and truth be told I prefer NOT having a TMS sucking power. Less wasteful and simpler, and I can let the car sit without losing range.

I'm sure I'd feel differently if we lived somewhere where the temps stay above 100F for weeks on end. I do hope Nissan is able to address that issue without having to resort to the kludge of active refrigeration. Ain't nobody got time for that! :lol:

 

[dvlax40]

Its interesting to see people from somewhat hot climates complain about battery range issues, sometimes upwards of 15+% after only a year. As i understand this is far outside of the battery warranty and should be eligible for replacement am i wrong?

another interesting note is that battery degradation is inversely logarithmic in that after 80% you should see little to no battery degradation.

as a resident of phoenix, im not doubt concerned with the heat/battery related issues. but lets be honest with ourselves, what is the failure rate of this car? increased battery degradation rate? the math would suggest that issues we are having are perfectly normal for any mass produced piece of machinery/electronics.

just a thought.


back on topic. im really interested to see what Volkswagen/Audi are doing with electric vehicles. An all electric A1 would be my ideal car. or maybe im just nostalgic for my A6 already

 

[davewill]

Its interesting to see people from somewhat hot climates complain about battery range issues, sometimes upwards of 15+% after only a year. As i understand this is far outside of the battery warranty and should be eligible for replacement am i wrong? ...

You are wrong. Up until the community raised holy hell last summer, battery capacity wasn't warrantied at all. Nissan has since stepped up with a battery warranty of 5 years, 60,000 miles that guarantees that you will lose no more than 3 bars in that time. If you do, Nissan will repair or replace the battery to get you back up above that standard. Doesn't matter if you lose three in one or two years, you have to wait for number 4 to go. As far as the degradation slowing down, we have no evidence of it so far. This will be the third summer for many 2011s and if it's going to slow down, we should see it over the next few months.

 

[Stoaty]

Its interesting to see people from somewhat hot climates complain about battery range issues, sometimes upwards of 15+% after only a year. As i understand this is far outside of the battery warranty and should be eligible for replacement am i wrong?

another interesting note is that battery degradation is inversely logarithmic in that after 80% you should see little to no battery degradation.

Yes, you are wrong. The only warranty provided is if you lose 4 bars within 5 years/60,000 miles Nissan will bring your battery pack up to 3 bars or less capacity loss. See also:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[smkettner]

another interesting note is that battery degradation is inversely logarithmic in that after 80% you should see little to no battery degradation.

We hope this proves correct but I don't see it. Either way LEAF becomes a sub 50 mile range vehicle and that is inadequate for me.

If the 80% plateau was a solid 100 miles then fine but I don't think Nissan is going there.

 

[N952JL]

My driving is rather bipolar. I take a lot of short trips - most days I travel less than 25 miles, with the ability to charge every 10-15 miles. But I also take a good amount of long trips - covering 600 miles in a weekend. The Leaf covers about 90% of my "trips" but only about 50% of my miles. I will probably keep it for a good long time, since the battery would have to degrade by >50% before it is significantly less useful to me. That could take 15-20 years here in my cold climate. When I do replace the Leaf, it will probably be with another Nissan, since they will probably have the best offering, but who really knows what will be available at that time...

My other car is a 2nd generation Honda Insight. When I replace it, it will definitely be something with a plug. My only real choice today is the C-Max Energi due to size - no, not the 5th seat, but the trunk space (19 cubic feet versus 10 cubic feet). The insight is still relatively new, though, and I am holding out for a Tesla "BlueStar". I am really hopeful that I can afford one by the time they are available - I have never purchased a car quite that expensive before, but it would be so nice to completely and totally ditch the gas engine - no more pumping gas, no more maintaining a gas powertrain, nothing.

You sound like my situation. My daily communte is about 20 miles round trip plus another 10 or so around town during the day. On a date I might drive to Macon or Perry and put maybe 50 to 60 miles. That is normally the limit. No public charging so I never go more than 30 miles in any direction.

As I normally tell people, the Leaf handles 98% of all my trips, but only 60-65% of my yearly mileage. I have a 2003 Camrea for the other 35 to 40% of my mileage. (I'll put 600 miles on a three day weekend or 1000 miles on a five day trip.)

I too would like a 3 to 4 hr interstate range with a 30 min 200 mile recharge rate like the new Tesla but need the price point to go back to the 30K point.

 

[TomT]

My experience shows otherwise.

another interesting note is that battery degradation is inversely logarithmic in that after 80% you should see little to no battery degradation.

 

[dvlax40]

My experience shows otherwise.

another interesting note is that battery degradation is inversely logarithmic in that after 80% you should see little to no battery degradation.

Do you have logs of your battery capacity over the course of its degradation? DCFC? I have a hard time believe that heat alone in the san fernando valley is the sole issue, there might be a cell defect in the battery itself. is there anyway to check battery cell health on these cars?

if you are now at 76 percent, the worst should be behind you. though if you needed all the miles of a 100 percent battery, that is of little consolation


if these are standard lithium ion batteries, then yes barring environmental damage battery degradation should peak between 70-80 and fall off slowly

I see others have pointed out i was wrong on the warranty. nissan does warranty below between 70 percent, i believe that they should have yearly chart for degradation warranty with a prorate system.

 

[rcyoder]

I bought my 2013 SV because I still like the car and the price is about half of the original lease price. At today's prices I couldn't turn it down. I took a two year lease to see how an EV works for me. So far I'm pleased, but realize that I can't use the car to visit my children (190 mile and 390 mile round trips), and I'm becoming more interested in the Tesla. The increased range interests me, but the cost is something I'm trying to justify. Clearly the Tesla is more of a luxury car than the Leaf (or any other EV), but I'm more interested in range than status.

I considered a RAV-4EV, but they aren't available in my state. I'm hopeful for a true 200+ mile range, but I'm not optimistic that will happen in 2 years, at least at my intended price point.

So my question is: "If not a Leaf, what else and why?"

I could probably do 90% of my normal daily driving within the pure EV range of a Volt. The Ford C-Max Energi would cover 60%. I can do "almost all" of it within the range of a Leaf (I haven't driven the ICE car because of range issues in 2013.) It's nice not to have to worry about ICE maintenance issues with the EVs!

My mom is ~390 miles away. Sure, I could do the trip with a Tesla Model S (or the Volt) - but I'm only going to make that trip twice a year at most. So is it worth more than doubling the cost of my Leaf SL just to handle those 1 day in a 100 needs or should I just use / rent an ICE car for those occasions?

My wife drives a 2002 RAV4-EV daily, and I drive a 2011 Leaf. We *do* have ready access to an ICE vehicle in the form of our VW EuroVan weekender camper, but it typically sits for weeks / months at a time without being driven. I've had to put a (solar) battery minder on it to make sure that it will start! From a purely monetary standpoint it would be more cost-effective to sell the van and just rent, but it's really inconvenient for us to get to camper rental locations (OTOH we have ready access to Zipcars parked on campus and various other Pasadena locations so renting *purely* for range when needed would be quite reasonable.)

 

[evnow]

I know one EV that has been on my list that won't be my next EV - Infiniti LE. It is now on hold.

So, that leaves me with
- BMW i3
- Model X/S
- Leaf '15 !

I guess my next to next EV will be interesting.

 

[TomT]

I think it may be a combination of them realizing it would not be competitive in that price range as currently visualized, and also the fact that Infiniti is not doing well as a brand and them wanting to concentrate more on what can sell in volume...

I know one EV that has been on my list that won't be my next EV - Infiniti LE. It is now on hold.

 

[Volusiano]

Again, thanks for the comments - I welcome more. I'm especially interested in Volt owner perspectives (has the car worked out the way you thought in terms of battery use versus ICE)..

The more opinions the better - I'm still learning and very much appreciate everyone's comments.

As a former LEAF owner who sold the LEAF back to Nissan and bought a Volt, I'd say that the Volt has worked out much better for me than the LEAF. The reasons:

1. I live in Phoenix so obviously the lack of TMS in the LEAF is its biggest down-fall here. The Volt's TMS serves its purpose very well here in Phoenix.

2. If you can only have 1 car and you want to be able to make longer trips (like in your situation visiting your kids), the Volt is a much more suitable option for you. You can take advantage of the EV part around town and the extended-range gas option on longer trips.

3. There's no more range anxiety, of course. You're free to just hop in and go without having to worry too much about whether you're going to be able to make it back and if there are public charging stations where you're going to help extend your range or not.

4. With the LEAF, everything revolves around the battery. Worry about whether it's too hot, too cold, how it affects the range. Worry about when to charge to 80% and when to 100%. Worry about not leaving it at 100% charge for too long. Worry about not Quick Charging it too much to cause heat build up. Worry about waiting for the battery to cool down before recharge. Worry about the garage being too hot for it and debating whether parking outside is better for the battery or not. Worrying about whether to charge every other day to keep the battery at the optimal point of 40-60% SOC longer, instead of just topping off the battery to keep it ready-to-go. On and on and on. If you're a long time forum member, you probably have read about all these discussions here. You feel as if you need to serve the battery on the LEAF, instead of it serving you. With the Volt, the battery and the car serve you, not the other way around. Of course, if you lease, you may not care about any of this. Especially on a 2 year lease.

 

[TomT]

Well stated!

With the LEAF, everything revolves around the battery. Worry about whether it's too hot, too cold, how it affects the range. Worry about when to charge to 80% and when to 100%. Worry about not leaving it at 100% charge for too long. Worry about not Quick Charging it too much to cause heat build up. Worry about waiting for the battery to cool down before recharge. Worry about the garage being too hot for it and debating whether parking outside is better for the battery or not. Worrying about whether to charge every other day to keep the battery at the optimal point of 40-60% SOC longer, instead of just topping off the battery to keep it ready-to-go. On and on and on. If you're a long time forum member, you probably have read about all these discussions here. You feel as if you need to serve the battery on the LEAF, instead of it serving you. With the Volt, the battery and the car serve you, not the other way around.

 

[davewill]

... I see others have pointed out i was wrong on the warranty. nissan does warranty below between 70 percent, i believe that they should have yearly chart for degradation warranty with a prorate system.

Sure they should, but they don't. The capacity warranty should also run the full term of the battery warranty, but Nissan doesn't have enough confidence in the LEAF's battery to do it.