Would you still have gotten a Leaf if....

[treinjapan]

If you knew it was going to be discontinued within the next couple of years?

I'm looking into getting one (dealer test drive car in Norther Japan, top tier model with about 5k miles on it for $18K) but the sense I got from the salesperson (who seemed strangely over-honest) is that the future of electric cars isn't very bright. Nissan hasn't been selling Leafs like it hoped to be, especially up here in the north. Hence the big discount for the pre-updated model. We both like it, but he was kind of like "are you suuuuuure this is okay...???!".

In general we average probably 15 miles per day in hardcore not-fun stop and go city driving in Sapporo. Once in a while we take trips to Costco or the mountains, which is doable on a full charge. Looking at the Leaf as our primary car for a while, and should the battery last many years, there's no point in not keeping even if we get another car. Have the 200V plug already installed at our house (a $30 option when you build your house here!) and we also have a 4 KW solar panel array that generates lots of electricity 8 or 9 months of the year when we're not buried in several meters of snow.

Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 9549]

Yes, would lease (not buy) regardless of discontinued someday. Everything will be discontinued some day. Everything changes over time. Nothing is forever.

EVs are doing quite well, especially the LEAF and Tesla. Future is looking very bright for EVs. Air of inevitability. Maybe that sales person doesn't like them. That hardly speaks for the the industry.

In the US, its best to lease, not buy because the technology will dramatically improve over the next few years and because the battery degrades in capacity so quickly especially in warm climates.

 

[treinjapan]

Yes, the sense I get is that EVs are doing way better in the US than they are here...but maybe it's just because I live in the frozen north where everyone is brainwashed to require AWD. Last summer when I was back in LA I saw at least one Tesla S every day, which was pretty impressive.

The situation we're in, is that we have $18K to buy a car that we will use for the next several years. I think leasing may only be an option on the BRAND new ones that are like $38K (top tier trim level) before rebates....but it seems like the depreciation would be pretty insane anyways. Also looking at the Juke, and test drove the brand new Honda Fit and Honda Vezel today. But still thinking about the Leaf.

Additionally, we're not buying the Leaf because we have a certain commute of X miles every day in which we're going to save $X per month over gasoline. It's more just like $18K can buy us a car that gets 25 mpg, or we can get a car that can be powered by our solar panels most of the year for free. So I think the whole "break-even" discussion doesn't even apply to our situation. If I'm wrong, please correct me

 

[TomT]

And where range can be expected to drop considerably in the very cold...

Yes, the sense I get is that EVs are doing way better in the US than they are here...but maybe it's just because I live in the frozen north where everyone is brainwashed to require AWD.

 

[treinjapan]

And where range can be expected to drop considerably in the very cold...

Yes, the sense I get is that EVs are doing way better in the US than they are here...but maybe it's just because I live in the frozen north where everyone is brainwashed to require AWD.

The worst we get here is about 10 or 15 degrees F. And that's only a couple times a year. Average in the winter is about 20-30 degrees. Would these temperatures drastically affect the range? How much are we talking, like -10% or like -30% range?

Thanks!

 

[Tomasz]

And where range can be expected to drop considerably in the very cold...

Yes, the sense I get is that EVs are doing way better in the US than they are here...but maybe it's just because I live in the frozen north where everyone is brainwashed to require AWD.

From my limited experience (first winter month with Leaf in Iowa) it's not that bad unless you drive on unplowed roads with packed snow - that is an efficiency killer no matter if you have winter tires or not. And winter tires are a must IMHO.

 

[Stanton]

Absolutely: I waited 20 years to buy a commercial (reputable) BEV (no hybrids here). Not only that, you sound like a perfect candidate for an EV and already have the 220v outlet in place (much as I did).
Forgetting the fact that the salesman was full of sh*t, seems like he needs to find another job. :?

 

[TomT]

If it is a 2013/2014, you should be OK as you would still be in the usable range of the reverse cycle heating system. It is the PTC that sucks the battery dry quickly... Still, you will need to deal with the decreased battery capacity due to the cold and possibly the increased rolling resistance due to snow and slush... My gut feeling is that you would be OK, however.

The worst we get here is about 10 or 15 degrees F. And that's only a couple times a year. Average in the winter is about 20-30 degrees. Would these temperatures drastically affect the range? How much are we talking, like -10% or like -30% range?

 

[treinjapan]

And where range can be expected to drop considerably in the very cold...

Yes, the sense I get is that EVs are doing way better in the US than they are here...but maybe it's just because I live in the frozen north where everyone is brainwashed to require AWD.

From my limited experience (first winter month with Leaf in Iowa) it's not that bad unless you drive on unplowed roads with packed snow - that is an efficiency killer no matter if you have winter tires or not. And winter tires are a must IMHO.

In the winter here, most of the non-main streets become so filled with snow that the curbs disappear and everything just becomes like a foot-deep shield of compressed snow. I'm sure that's not great for mileage, but then again, when the winter is that extreme I'm not even doing much long-distance driving in my AWD Legacy.

For the main 2-3 months of winter here, there are a lot of times when there is 6-8 inches of snow on the ground, but like I mentioned above, we're not doing much hardcore distance traveling at that time anyway.

 

[Nubo]

Apart from battery limitations, Electric drive is superior to internal combustion in every other way. Aside from rather arbitrary "petrol head" aesthetics having to do with noise and vibration, there is simply no question; it's not even close.

The only question is how soon the price/performance point improves to where people who don't really care WHAT is under the hood, start to decide "hey, this is better". It's an intersection of multiple moving targets. But I think we're close.

 

[smkettner]

Yes I would have still purchased my LEAF if I knew it was to be discontinued.
Unless Nissan itself was going bankrupt and was to be liquidated... Then I would want a fire sale price.

 

[ERG4ALL]

I doubt that Nissan will do away with the LEAF for a couple of reasons. First is that if Nissan doesn't have a zero emissions car, they will not be able to sell their ICE cars in California. The California market is a big one. Second, we toured the Nissan Smyrna plant this last summer. The LEAF is assembled on the very same line as many of the other Nissan models. Many of the supporting structures (e.g. dies, molds, etc.) are a sunk cost so it doesn't cost Nissan as much as you would think if it only produces at a low volume. I believe they will continue and when the next generation of batteries is put into production with a range of over 200 miles, the volume will pick up in a hurry.

 

[RonDawg]

Yes, the sense I get is that EVs are doing way better in the US than they are here...

Japan is the Leaf's second-largest market after the US. Up until earlier this year, it was the Leaf's largest market, with the US in second place. From Wikipedia:

As of October 2013, the leading markets are the United States with about 37,600 units sold, Japan with almost 32,000 units, followed by the European market with more than 15,800 units delivered, with global sales totaling over 87,000 Leafs through October 2013. The European market is led by Norway with over 6,400 new units sold through October 2013.

 

[UkrainianKozak]

If you knew it was going to be discontinued within the next couple of years?
Thanks!

Yes, I would buy it with no hesitation, but it does not seem like it's going to be discontinued...
Nissan execs are talking about improvements up to 2016 and further:
http://insideevs.com/nissan-exec-reliable-125-miles-of-range-coming-to-leaf-by-2016/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did your sales rep tried to upsell you for Murano so you will spend $$ on maintenance and oil changes?
That's sounds more likely.

 

[thankyouOB]

the premise seems to be chicken-little style, bs extrapolated from a single remark--no?
"...but the sense I got from the salesperson (who seemed strangely over-honest) is that the future of electric cars isn't very bright. "

thanks for sharing, though.

 

[XeonPony]

just drove my leaf 64Km in a strong head wind at -30c (-22F) got to work with 19% left (But I pushed it at about 75/80Kmph as I left a hair late. thats with the factory tires and it is mostly snow and ice here in weyburn sask canada. so at the coazy warm tempos your talking about you got it made!.

I find range drop and slow charging starts at around -17c (Not a clue in feranhight)

 

[Nubo]

I find range drop and slow charging starts at around -17c (Not a clue in feranhight)

F = (C*9/5) +32

 

[GRA]

I find range drop and slow charging starts at around -17c (Not a clue in feranhight)

F = (C*9/5) +32

Which is +1.4 deg. Fahrenheit, in this case.

 

[treinjapan]

just drove my leaf 64Km in a strong head wind at -30c (-22F) got to work with 19% left (But I pushed it at about 75/80Kmph as I left a hair late. thats with the factory tires and it is mostly snow and ice here in weyburn sask canada. so at the coazy warm tempos your talking about you got it made!.

I find range drop and slow charging starts at around -17c (Not a clue in feranhight)

These are the kinds of comments that give a guy like me a lot of comfort! Thanks so much for your input man. I don't often drive that far in one go, but it's good to know I can even if the temperatures drop like crazy.

 

[RonDawg]

I find range drop and slow charging starts at around -17c (Not a clue in feranhight)

F = (C*9/5) +32

http://www.metric-conversions.org/temperature/celsius-to-fahrenheit.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is so much easier to use :lol: