LeftieBiker
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:03 pm

I see little point in offering 47 miles of autonomy in a PHEV that won't let you drive it comfortably as an EV in Winter. I assume it also lacks a heatpump. Is there even an electric cabin heater like the Volt's? Even Toyota eventually got the message on this, and the Prime, with half the range, would still be the better Winter EV.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

SageBrush
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Location: Colorado

Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:38 pm

My first winter with our Prius Prime is coming up, and I'm curious to see how fuel efficiency sorts out. My tentative plans for for different length trips:

SHORT: pre-heat at home, then drive and heat with EV
LONG: moderate pre-heat at home, then drive in HV and heat the cabin with ICE until I reach EV range from destination. Minimal cabin heating while in EV.

These strategies are applicable to any plug-in hybrid.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:22 pm

These strategies are applicable to any plug-in hybrid.


No. "Minimal cabin heating" would consist of seat heaters only in a PIP in EV mode. I wonder if the same applies to the Clarity PHEV.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:55 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I see little point in offering 47 miles of autonomy in a PHEV that won't let you drive it comfortably as an EV in Winter. I assume it also lacks a heatpump. Is there even an electric cabin heater like the Volt's? Even Toyota eventually got the message on this, and the Prime, with half the range, would still be the better Winter EV.

All depends how far you need to drive ,doesn't it? Back when GM was introducing the Volt, they provided DoT info that said that 35 miles AER covered the routine driving needs of 75% of U.S. drivers, and 40 miles covered 78%, so what % of the public is going to be using the ICE for their routine needs on a regular basis? Preheat and drive the car anywhere within that range, using the heater as you please. If you need more AER to run the heater, either buy a different car or just accept the small gas use, whichever works for you.

As far as the heater, one source I found says only the Clarity BEV adds a heat pump, but all Claritys have resistive heating. I don't know if that's accurate.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:11 pm

Preheat and drive the car anywhere within that range, using the heater as you please. If you need more AER to run the heater, either buy a different car or just accept the small gas use, whichever works for you.


Preheating and then driving with no heat works fine for Rugged EV Individualists, but for the wider public it's a Fail. If there is a resistance heater than the car should be ok for most, with much lower Winter autonomy. As for the choices you offer, I choose "buy a different car."
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

GetOffYourGas
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:02 am

GRA wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:I see little point in offering 47 miles of autonomy in a PHEV that won't let you drive it comfortably as an EV in Winter. I assume it also lacks a heatpump. Is there even an electric cabin heater like the Volt's? Even Toyota eventually got the message on this, and the Prime, with half the range, would still be the better Winter EV.

All depends how far you need to drive ,doesn't it? Back when GM was introducing the Volt, they provided DoT info that said that 35 miles AER covered the routine driving needs of 75% of U.S. drivers, and 40 miles covered 78%, so what % of the public is going to be using the ICE for their routine needs on a regular basis? Preheat and drive the car anywhere within that range, using the heater as you please. If you need more AER to run the heater, either buy a different car or just accept the small gas use, whichever works for you.

As far as the heater, one source I found says only the Clarity BEV adds a heat pump, but all Claritys have resistive heating. I don't know if that's accurate.


This is the part that drive me nuts. People would rather buy a different car (one that ONLY burns gas) than accept a little bit of gas being burned in a PHEV. The truth is, the PHEV will save you much more gas (and gas money!) over a year even if you can't make your commute in EV mode in the depth of winter.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

LeftieBiker
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:03 pm

It apparently drives you nuts for no good reason. What is hard to understand about someone not wanting to run an ICE for 10 minutes to drive 20 miles? Why are you assuming that people will be buying a HEV instead of a PHEV because of this? I think you should reexamine your assumptions here.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

GetOffYourGas
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:55 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:It apparently drives you nuts for no good reason. What is hard to understand about someone not wanting to run an ICE for 10 minutes to drive 20 miles? Why are you assuming that people will be buying a HEV instead of a PHEV because of this? I think you should reexamine your assumptions here.


It's not about not wanting to run an ICE for 10 minutes of a 30 minute drive. It's about deciding to instead run one for 30 minutes for a 30 minute drive because they cannot get to 0 minutes.

Perhaps I did not articulate my frustration clearly. When I say "people", I mean "some people", not "all people". I'm not making assumptions, I am listening to what people say. I personally know a handful of people who have done exactly what I described.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:12 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Preheat and drive the car anywhere within that range, using the heater as you please. If you need more AER to run the heater, either buy a different car or just accept the small gas use, whichever works for you.


Preheating and then driving with no heat works fine for Rugged EV Individualists, but for the wider public it's a Fail.

Of course, which is why I said use the heater as you please.

LeftieBiker wrote:If there is a resistance heater than the car should be ok for most, with much lower Winter autonomy. As for the choices you offer, I choose "buy a different car."

And more power to you. Each individual can decide what works for them.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:17 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:It apparently drives you nuts for no good reason. What is hard to understand about someone not wanting to run an ICE for 10 minutes to drive 20 miles? Why are you assuming that people will be buying a HEV instead of a PHEV because of this? I think you should reexamine your assumptions here.


It's not about not wanting to run an ICE for 10 minutes of a 30 minute drive. It's about deciding to instead run one for 30 minutes for a 30 minute drive because they cannot get to 0 minutes.

Perhaps I did not articulate my frustration clearly. When I say "people", I mean "some people", not "all people". I'm not making assumptions, I am listening to what people say. I personally know a handful of people who have done exactly what I described.


Do you know of anyone who has bought a HEV instead of a PHEV for this reason? Because I've never heard of it happening. People who want an EV mode that badly don't throw it away altogether from exasperation. I think that this is either a strawman argument of some sort, or more likely someone told you this as a rationalization for not buying a PHEV but didn't really mean it.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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