Official Tesla Model 3 thread

This reminds me of a friend that watches utube DIY home improvement videos telling me how easy a project will be building a outdoor bench with Doug Fir

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

GRA said:

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

That group is also a self-selection bias.

At least with EVDriver's sample pool, those drivers started off with being used to buttons (since there weren't any other options) and have had to learn how to use the touchscreen settings.

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No, because you are looking at ALL potential buyers and seeing what they say, rather than picking one subgroup or another. Most potential Tesla buyers, or car buyers in general which is what you really want, are people who are almost certainly familiar with touchscreens via prior experience with smartphones or tablets, as well as physical buttons, and may or may not be familiar with ACC and manual HVAC controls. Only by surveying the entire group can you get useful data and eliminate the effects of personal preference.

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No, you are looking at a SUBSET of all potential buyers - those who rejects the tech outright, because of a personal proclivity towards or against a tech.

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Nonsense, I'm talking about all potential buyers (the only self-selection in their case being they can afford the car). Some will be fine with touchscreens, some will reject them out of hand, and some will be willing to try and see, but that's a survey of personal preference, not a test of safety/functionality.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

Whatever experience they've had with tablets and smartphones does NOT translate into an affinity for touch-screen controls of automotive functions. A teenager with touchscreen experience isn't going to be able to tell you squat about how good those controls are for driving, because you're not interacting with a tablet/smartphone in the same manor as automotive controls. You're not watching a video, playing a game, or surfing the web on the Tesla touchscreen. Only drivers who've had experience with the screen and regular automotive buttons can tell you which is better (some still prefer buttons). Everyone else's opinion is noise.

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So you're saying that no prior experience transfers over? Obviously, specific functions or sequences have to be learned, but the basics of swiping, pinching, menus etc. are second nature. Unfortunately, so is concentrating on the screen to the exclusion of almost everything else.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would claim that prior experience with this tech wouldn't make it easier to use - I take it you never had to show an aged relative how to program their VCR or use a computer to send email? IME, GUIs and mice were a huge step forward in ease of training people unfamiliar with and intimidated by computers, compared to DOS' cryptic and hard to remember commands and sequences. A touchscreen's main advantages over physical buttons are a saving in real estate and a reduction in cost; they may also be more reliable, but single-purpose controls can be made very reliable. There's far more real estate available for physical controls in a car than on a smartphone or tablet, so the main advantage in that case is cost, but that shouldn't be at the cost of reduced safety.

dgpcolorado said:

SageBrush said:

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

thirdly, at 70%, the model 3 is still pulling down ~70kw (~4.5miles of charge per minute) most of the non-urban superchargers are near easy on/off ramps,

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I don't think this is correct. The kW rate reported is an average for charging session. If you want to know the immediate power you have to multiply Amps * Volts

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Unless the Model 3 works differently from the S, which I doubt, the kW number displayed is the current charging rate, not an average for the charging session. However, the rated miles per hour number is an average over the charging session, which might lead to some confusion.

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Then I may be mistaken. I'll try to remember to pay attention the next time I supercharge.

Sadly, I've decided to not to buy a 3. The final reason is that I do not want to live without a steering wheel heater. I use the one in the LEAF over 5 months a year.

Hopefully it takes Tesla less than 6 months to refund my deposit this time (I originally had 2, and canceled one when I got the S).

jlv said:

Sadly, I've decided to not to buy a 3. The final reason is that I do not want to live without a steering wheel heater. I use the one in the LEAF over 5 months a year.

Hopefully it takes Tesla less than 6 months to refund my deposit this time (I originally had 2, and canceled one when I got the S).

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Maybe they'll change their minds and add heaters after norway sales next year?

GRA said:

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

GRA said:

No, because you are looking at ALL potential buyers and seeing what they say, rather than picking one subgroup or another. Most potential Tesla buyers, or car buyers in general which is what you really want, are people who are almost certainly familiar with touchscreens via prior experience with smartphones or tablets, as well as physical buttons, and may or may not be familiar with ACC and manual HVAC controls. Only by surveying the entire group can you get useful data and eliminate the effects of personal preference.

Click to expand...

No, you are looking at a SUBSET of all potential buyers - those who rejects the tech outright, because of a personal proclivity towards or against a tech.

Click to expand...

Nonsense, I'm talking about all potential buyers (the only self-selection in their case being they can afford the car). Some will be fine with touchscreens, some will reject them out of hand, and some will be willing to try and see, but that's a survey of personal preference, not a test of safety/functionality.

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you moved the goalpost.

GRA said:

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

Whatever experience they've had with tablets and smartphones does NOT translate into an affinity for touch-screen controls of automotive functions. A teenager with touchscreen experience isn't going to be able to tell you squat about how good those controls are for driving, because you're not interacting with a tablet/smartphone in the same manor as automotive controls. You're not watching a video, playing a game, or surfing the web on the Tesla touchscreen. Only drivers who've had experience with the screen and regular automotive buttons can tell you which is better (some still prefer buttons). Everyone else's opinion is noise.

Click to expand...

So you're saying that no prior experience transfers over? Obviously, specific functions or sequences have to be learned, but the basics of swiping, pinching, menus etc. are second nature. Unfortunately, so is concentrating on the screen to the exclusion of almost everything else.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would claim that prior experience with this tech wouldn't make it easier to use - I take it you never had to show an aged relative how to program their VCR or use a computer to send email? IME, GUIs and mice were a huge step forward in ease of training people unfamiliar with and intimidated by computers, compared to DOS' cryptic and hard to remember commands and sequences. A touchscreen's main advantages over physical buttons are a saving in real estate and a reduction in cost; they may also be more reliable, but single-purpose controls can be made very reliable. There's far more real estate available for physical controls in a car than on a smartphone or tablet, so the main advantage in that case is cost, but that shouldn't be at the cost of reduced safety.

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I've taught (and am constantly re-teaching) my 91 yo grandpa how to use an ipad. My 72 yo dad is fairly proficient with his smartphone (used to be android and is now iphone8) and ipad (been using one since ipad2), but he doesn't like the Tesla, because he's been driving for over half a century with buttons and isn't willing to learn something new. Then again, he didn't want to drive my leaf either. He drives a tacoma with manual transmission.

My aunt (65 yo) on the other hand is very open to how everything is managed by the touch screen, yet is also unnecessary to manage on a regular basis. She used to ask my dad for help with electronics issues.

You better believe that touchscreen experience does NOT apply to driving with a touch-screen. It's nothing but a UI, and the affinity to it is learned and not adapted.

jlv said:

Sadly, I've decided to not to buy a 3. The final reason is that I do not want to live without a steering wheel heater. I use the one in the LEAF over 5 months a year...

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I don't have the steering wheel heater on my S60 and, after more than four years of enjoying the one on my LEAF, I do miss it. I get by with touch screen gloves but it isn't as nice, to be sure.

However, even if they offered a $1000 cold weather package on the 3, I wouldn't pay that just for the steering wheel heater — the gloves are ok, I'm always wearing gloves out of the house in winter anyway. I think it should be standard, even though people in warm places like Hawai'i wouldn't need it (or seat heaters, for that matter). Seems like a feature that should be provided on cars in the Model 3 price range.

Same here -- our LEAF and the Prius Prime we owned last year both have heated steering wheels. My wife uses the feature but I prefer to just wear gloves in the car since I wear them outside.

Hardly seems a reason to choose a car by.

My hands don't generate enough heat to make gloves effective below about 40F. I also have Renaud's Syndrome, so cold hands are hands in pain. I would not buy or lease a car that didn't have a heated steering wheel. Period.

jlv said:

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

What version firmware are they on?

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It was definitely a bug prior to 2018.34.1; I'm not sure if anyone has gotten that yet on their 3 here (I only just got that on my S 2 days ago). I'll ask around.

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So I tried it today and it seemed to have charged fine. This is what I did:
- kept the adapter in the charge port
- locked the car
- waited until the charge port indicator light went off (after which the charge-port door tried to auto-close and then auto-opened when it bumped into the j1772 adapter).
- after the car seemed to be completely off, I plugged in the EVSE, and I could hear the car move something into position. At the scheduled charging time, the car started charging.

Will need to re-test, but without a charge timer to see if that matters?

Oils4AsphaultOnly: If you haven't already, I would try to test it with no phones anywhere nearby (or power them off completely). That would simulate the scenario of someone who isn't the driver coming to plug the 3 in.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

Will need to re-test, but without a charge timer to see if that matters?

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There's definitely no charge timer involved here. With that enabled the car will wake itself up to start charging, so I wouldn't expect this bug to show up.

SageBrush said:

Hardly seems a reason to choose a car by.

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Well, I've already got both a LEAF and an S with a heated steering wheel. Whereas I'd far prefer to drive a 3 as my daily commute car to the LEAF, I definitely would have been annoyed by the lack of this all winter long. So I keep the LEAF and don't get a 3.

(As I said, this was just the final reason I came up with for not buying a 3. If I didn't have the LEAF and S already, I'd be all over a 3. This is definitely nothing against the 3!)

jlv said:

(As I said, this was just the final reason I came up with for not buying a 3)

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This, I believe.

jlv said:

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

Will need to re-test, but without a charge timer to see if that matters?

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There's definitely no charge timer involved here. With that enabled the car will wake itself up to start charging, so I wouldn't expect this bug to show up.

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Okay, so I tested it without the charge timer, and it does indeed NOT charge. However, as long as you wake up the car (by pressing the door handles - even without a key), the charging will start. Interestingly, you can't remove the evse without the car unlocked (even though its on), so I'm guessing this change was an attempt to improve security of the car?

So although, one person can move the evse to the sleeping tesla and wake the car up with the door handles, only the car owner (or a remote unlocking) can move the evse to the next car in your arrangement.

Thanks for testing that. As I noted, this bug got introduced in an OTA sometime around late July.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

So although, one person can move the evse to the sleeping tesla and wake the car up with the door handles, only the car owner (or a remote unlocking) can move the evse to the next car in your arrangement.

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All our EVSEs are J1772s, so you just unplug it from the J1772 adapter (which stays locked to the car) and move it to the next car.

(shared EVSEs work well unless the car is a eGolf or Soul EV; earlier versions of both lock the J1772, and keep it locked even when the car is done charging)

SageBrush said:

jlv said:

(As I said, this was just the final reason I came up with for not buying a 3)

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This, I believe.

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The future is always in motion. The other reason for not getting a 3 is that we're replacing the ICE with an X. Newest plans are to sell the LEAF and just drive the S.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

Interestingly, you can't remove the evse without the car unlocked (even though its on), so I'm guessing this change was an attempt to improve security of the car?

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My S has always worked this way.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

So although, one person can move the evse to the sleeping tesla and wake the car up with the door handles, only the car owner (or a remote unlocking) can move the evse to the next car in your arrangement.

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This may not help you, but FYI:

I don't lock my Model 3. If the EVSE is connected to the car, the charging is finished, and the car is sleeping, I cannot disconnect the EVSE. If however I open a door and wake the car up I can disconnect. This is the case with a J1772 adapter; I'm not sure about a Tesla EVSE.

SageBrush said:

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

So although, one person can move the evse to the sleeping tesla and wake the car up with the door handles, only the car owner (or a remote unlocking) can move the evse to the next car in your arrangement.

Click to expand...

This may not help you, but FYI:

I don't lock my Model 3. If the EVSE is connected to the car, the charging is finished, and the car is sleeping, I cannot disconnect the EVSE. If however I open a door and wake the car up I can disconnect. This is the case with a J1772 adapter; I'm not sure about a Tesla EVSE.

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How do you "not lock" your Tesla? They auto-lock unless the car is still on, or one of the doors are ajar.