LeftieBiker
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon May 06, 2019 11:14 pm

The "complainers" should just add lorenfb to their foes list and chill. Take a step back.


I agree. There is a difference between someone annoying you and them engaging in behavior that should result in banning. I'd also like to note that a warning is one thing, and banning is another, considerably worse action that should require really bad behavior to be triggered...
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2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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webb14leafs
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue May 07, 2019 5:03 am

lorenfb wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
Soon to be ex forum troller if things do not change soon.


Dislike facts or reality, so it's trolling, right? The last I checked, this is a Nissan Leaf forum, what's with all the Tesla promos?
When's the last time you commented on a Leaf issue other than denigrate the Leaf in favor of a Tesla? It appears many
here besides you just promote Telsa topics. What's that all about?


I own a Leaf, which I love. That drove me to this board. I also own Tesla stock, and I think that Tesla is vital to advancing and accelerating the consumer shift to technologies that will combat climate change. That's why I'm on this thread. I used to comment on my Leaf, but honestly, it is boringly and reliably awesome, so not much to post. The battery continues to degrade, but that's not worth complaining about. Still a bargain and a joy to drive and own.

I don't think you should be banned, and I'm sorry if I'm contributing to any sort of escalation. There are two sides to this healthy and interesting debate on the viability of one of the most polarizing companies in modern history.

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TomT
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue May 07, 2019 5:10 am

Added him to my foe list LONG ago...

cwerdna wrote:
The "complainers" should just add lorenfb to their foes list and chill. Take a step back.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at 5 yr lease return.

Now driving a 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR FSD.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue May 07, 2019 8:04 am

lorenfb wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:If you own a Tesla and had issues with it, then I think people would be more receptive to your negative viewpoints. But right now, all I'm seeing is an agenda and a vested interest completely divorced from the product.


The M3 is a well designed BEV with leading technology in numerous areas. I never minimized that aspect. Other than to indicate for
the most part, that Tesla's technology is widely known and available to other OEMs. Personally I find the 40 kWh Leaf more appealing
for my needs, and without the negatives of the M3 I've expressed on MNL.

My key objections are with Tesla's management and marketing of its products. Why the need for the "smoke & mirrors" approach
when presenting and discussing Tesla's near term guidance? Frequent full sales and financial disclosures will most likely result in
less stock volatility in the long run, and less short selling. There's no need for Elon's typical hyperbolic presentations which denote,
as an example, that FSD (full self driving) will be available by late 2020 or sooner;

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/22/1851 ... redictions

And then making comments such as this;
It’s financially insane to buy anything other than a Tesla.

Or this;
Tesla unveiled a new microchip that Musk said was being included in every new Tesla produced today.
He called “the best chip in the world… objectively.”

There're more than enough very good word-of-mouth data on Tesla products, without the need for such comments.

The financial data I've used in presenting my perspective on Tesla are publicly available from Tesla's P&L statements. The calculations
used are very simple Accounting 101 theory that most can derive from what has been posted. It's unfortunate that some disapprove
of viewing Tesla's financial and market position analytically. One always has the option to ignore my posts or to refute the
calculations using the same publicly available financial data.


And yet the shorts who relied on that accounting 101 drew conclusions that were complete opposites of q3 and q4. It's one thing to understand the p&l, it's something else to draw the wrong conclusions and then pontificate on those conclusions and not the p&l itself. That's why we'll never agree.

As for Elon musk's hyperbole, that's usually taken out of context. As an engineer, he tries to be precise, but that's almost impossible when he's speculating. People read his answers one way without the context of the question, and attribute conclusions that he didn't intend. At the same time, these are predictions/plans that are forced to go through the ringers of reality. Tesla has demonstrated that they complete their projects, just not on time. As a long, I've long discounted his timeline projections as optimism, but pay very close attention to what tech they've implented and how they do so - gf3, enhanced AP, "feature complete" FSD - these are huge steps ahead of the competition.

"Feature complete" FSD is the perfect example of the misrepresentations that's prevalent about Musk. When he provided his timeline expectation (interview prior to the ark invest one), he had actually also explained what he meant by it, but many of the news outlets cropped it to mean that FSD would be ready by end of year, which is NOT what he meant. But that claim has been circulated too extensively to counter. By the time of the ark invest interview, when he repeated his explanation of "feature complete", everyone claimed that he walked back his projections, when that wasn't true, because of poor writing/editing.

I get that the above makes me sound like an apologist, but I've read through enough BS to not trust mass media, but to try to get source material at all times. I also don't see a bed of roses. As webb14leaf said, Tesla might fail, but not with as much certainty as you've proclaimed.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
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Leaf15
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue May 07, 2019 3:57 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:As for Elon musk's hyperbole, that's usually taken out of context. As an engineer, he tries to be precise, but that's almost impossible when he's speculating.
Please, check your sources. Elon Musk does not hold any Engineering Degree whatsoever. He holds undergraduate degree in economics and stayed for a second bachelor's degree in physics and that is about it. Nobody could take anything out of context when he speaks as the whole thing is out of context of engineering, lol
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ionic Limited

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue May 07, 2019 4:22 pm

Leaf15 wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:As for Elon musk's hyperbole, that's usually taken out of context. As an engineer, he tries to be precise, but that's almost impossible when he's speculating.
Please, check your sources. Elon Musk does not hold any Engineering Degree whatsoever. He holds undergraduate degree in economics and stayed for a second bachelor's degree in physics and that is about it. Nobody could take anything out of context when he speaks as the whole thing is out of context of engineering, lol


Wow. This is the best you've got? So, because someone graduates with an econ and physics degree, they can't be an engineer, despite applying scientific laws towards the development of solutions to problem?

By that same token, because I _only_ hold an engineering degree, I should know jack s**t about how to read a 10Q, form 4, or 8K? What a rigid world you must live in.

Edit: The pendants will point out that the beef is with the [engineering] title and not the capabilities. In my case, regardless of how much accounting I learned and applied, I still would not be called an accountant. Quibbling about that difference, although correct, isn't the point.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue May 07, 2019 7:39 pm

FWIW, from that notoriously anti-Tesla website IEVS:
Are Tesla Model 3 Orders Declining In Germany?
https://insideevs.com/news/347837/tesla-model-3-orders-germany/

A lower number of applications for subsidies for the Tesla Model 3 suggests a declining number of orders.

The number of applications for a government subsidy by consumers ordering the Tesla Model 3 in Germany amounted to 3,292 during the first four months of this year.

However, according to the monthly data, the number of applications are decreasing every month:

Jan: 911
Feb: 835
Mar: 811
Apr: 735
Total: 3,292

I'm sure those on each side of the argument will find the numbers support their opinions.

Count me as one more who sees no legitimate reason whatsoever for banning lorenfb. Prohibiting someone from expressing unpopular opinions should never be done. Granted, I've long found most of loren's posts to be repetitive, one-sided and often completely over-the-top, but as cwerdna noted, anyone who finds them devoid of value should just put him on their foe's list. There are others who've repeatedly engaged in behavior that violates the terms of service (AFAICS, loren has not), yet they're still here.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

WetEV
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue May 07, 2019 8:33 pm

Count me as one more who sees no legitimate reason whatsoever for banning lorenfb.

+1

If I put someone on my foe list, lorenfb wouldn't be the first. Or the second. Or the third.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue May 07, 2019 10:16 pm

TomT wrote:Added him to my foe list LONG ago...

cwerdna wrote:
The "complainers" should just add lorenfb to their foes list and chill. Take a step back.


I fixed the attribution, as I was just quoting cwerdna.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Evoforce
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue May 07, 2019 10:32 pm

Well then... Let's not let the negative derail what should be a positive thread. Those who do not own the Tesla product, the negative they say, should carry no weight whatsoever.

Tesla is a great brand. Some, including the stubborn, jealous, shorts, competitors etc, are going to hate but it is hard not to push back on their nonsense. It can get tiresome to continue, over and over, to have to correct exaggerated, misleading, or outright false information.

People who own or want to own a Tesla are going to migrate to this thread. Because the cars have a high owner satisfaction you will see that owners are generally happy. There is that vocal 8% of owners that are not. So, naysayers will try to leverage that 8% and spin it to suit their narrative.

If we are on this forum, we most likely have owned or still own a Leaf. What's better than dual brand owners to offer advice or talk about the products? You would think that those are exactly the people that should be listened to...
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

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