User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4347
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Boca Raton FL

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:29 am

RegGuheert wrote:I just took a look at Proterra's Electric Bus Specifications and I see that they have options all the way up to 660(!) kWh. It seems clear that as time goes on, more and more missions are being covered by these battery-electric buses.

As GRA posted about above, these buses now travel over 300,000 miles between battery-related roadcalls. I have no doubt that failures related to the drive electronics will be handled as time goes on.

Cost, range, reliability and durability should all continue to improve as the technology progresses.

If my math is correct Park City is saving $1200/day on diesel fuel on the one route they have Proterra buses. Of course the electricity isn't free but it's low cost coal by wire. They only have one on-route charging station though, which is a single point of failure for six buses. For a couple days the electric express turned into the diesel express :-(
Word is they are planning to acquire some 35 footers for other routes. Probably waiting to see how they work out overall; it will be interesting to see how they do in the winter.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10032
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:28 pm

http://www.electricvehiclesresearch.com ... -logistics

The companies that together have sunk billions into fuel cell vehicles used to argue that the heavy things like buses and trucks could only be electrified with fuel cell. However, China is soon to celebrate 200,000 large pure electric buses in regular use and volume production of fuel cell buses has yet to begin.

What about trucks? Here there is little incentive to reduce emissions for these because they spend little or no time in city centers and operators are unlikely to pay a premium for green credentials beyond what the tightening regulations require. Volvo Group, the huge truck maker, says it is almost all about total cost of ownership of a truck. Nevertheless, IDTechEx finds that, here too, it is pure electric and conventional hybrid power trains that are in the lead though less dramatically because change is slower.

As with a minority of large buses, various forms of top up charging permit the battery to be downsized by 80% releasing more space for cargo and reducing the pure electric vehicle cost penalty. IDTechEx reports on industrial and commercial vehicles and on fuel cell vehicles tell more.

More than 600 trucks arrive at the Porsche plant in Leipzig every day as part of the company's logistics network. During the trial, the first truck with a purely electric drive is being used between the logistics centre and the assembly supply centre.

This action is part of the eJIT research project, which involves Porsche Leipzig as well as IAV GmbH, Schnellecke Logistics, Volkswagen Sachsen and the Saxony Automotive Supplier Network. The aim of the pilot project is to test the use of electric trucks under real conditions in multi-shift operation at automotive plants.

The electric truck is charged during the planned waiting times while it is being loaded at the supply centre. The battery is charged while the process is ongoing using a 150-kW fast charger, enabling the truck to be used in three-shift operation. Once fully charged, the truck has a range of around 70 kilometres and a top speed of 85 kilometres per hour. Alongside the project at Porsche Leipzig, a second electric truck is being tested by Volkswagen Sachsen at the Zwickau plant. The eJIT project is intended to run for a total of three years

A second stage of the project is scheduled for the coming year, with the Porsche plant in Leipzig set to operate a highly automated vehicle from 2018 onwards. The eJIT project is intended to run for a total of three years. The project partners IAV GmbH, Porsche Leipzig, Schnellecke Logistics, Volkswagen Sachsen and the Saxony Automotive Supplier Network have been working together since early 2016 on the electrification of trucks, with the aim of reducing noise and emissions at automotive sites.

The project is part of the technology programme "Information and communication technology for electric mobility III: Integrating commercial e-vehicles in logistics, energy, and mobility infrastructure", which is run by the German Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy (BMWi) and is a continuation of the previous research into the commercial use of electric mobility.

GRA
Posts: 7542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:31 pm

Via GCC:
Clemson, SC purchases 10 Proterra electric buses
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/09/20170907-proterra.html

. . . CATbus purchased the Proterra Catalyst E2 buses in part with $3.9 million from the Federal Highway and Transit Administration’s (FTA) Low- or No-Emissions program. The Low-No program provided $55 million in bus-buying grants to municipalities in 2016, of which Clemson’s grant was among the largest. The ten-bus purchase complements the six Proterra buses already servicing the City of Seneca, S.C. that are operated by CATbus. In 2015, Seneca became the first city in the US to operate an all-electric bus fleet.

Since the fleet made its debut, the Seneca Proterra buses have received 27,950 charges, traveled more than 520,000 miles and eliminated over 2,848,600 lbs (1.3 metric tonnes) of greenhouse gases.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:30 pm

Via GCC:
USDOT awarding $55M to support purchase of Low-No buses; electric buses and infrastructure
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/09 ... 7-dot.html

Via GCC:
USDOT awarding $55M to support purchase of Low-No buses; electric buses and infrastructure
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/09/20170917-dot.html

The US Department of Transportation’s Federal Transit Administration (FTA) announced $55 million in grant selections through the Low or No Emission (Low-No) Vehicle program, which funds the development of transit buses and infrastructure that use advanced fuel technologies. Fifty-one projects in 39 states will receive a share of the funding. The vast majority of the funded projects are for battery-electric buses and infrastructure; two projects are receiving a total of $3.2 million for hydrogen fuel cell buses.

Eligible projects included those that replace, rehabilitate, lease, and purchase buses and related equipment as well as projects to purchase, rehabilitate, construct or lease bus-related facilities, such as buildings for bus storage and maintenance. Projects can also include workforce development components to train the next generation of transit employees. . . .

There's a table showing where each of the grants are going, and the amounts. I've listed the two FCEV grants in the "AFV Truck and Non-BEV Bus" topic.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:46 pm

Via GCC:
Volvo receives order for 25 electric buses from Trondheim, Norway
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/09 ... volvo.html

The electric buses from Volvo will run on four routes in Trondheim, covering distances of between 12 and 15 km each, with operations due to start in August 2019. . . .

The fully electric buses are being sold as a complete turnkey package whereby Volvo takes care of all vehicle and battery maintenance at a fixed monthly cost. The buses will be fast-charged using opportunity charging, via rails installed at the end stops.

The charging stations will be based on an open interface known as OppCharge, which means they can be used by other electrified bus makes too. The buses will run on renewable energy so they will be entirely emission-free. Energy consumption for Volvo’s electric buses is about 80% lower than for corresponding diesel buses. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
Posts: 4745
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:11 pm

Nice thing about making a 73+ hour maximum-range test in a bus, is that it (presumably) has a bathroom...

~800 LBS for a ~60 kWh pack, like the 2019 LEAF's optional pack?

Proterra And LG Chem Announce New Battery Cell With Higher Energy Density

...The new battery cell was built specifically to meet the rigorous performance requirements of Proterra’s heavy-duty vehicles, which, like their diesel and natural gas-fired counterparts, are typically utilized upwards of 12 hours per day of constant use. To ensure availability throughout the entire day, the batteries were optimized for maximum energy throughput capability. That allows the packs to accept a charge at a very higher rate than conventional lithium-ion battery technologies.

The new battery cells set a new high bar for the industry in energy density — which is the amount of energy stored in a given volume of space.

The new battery comes in at 160 Wh/kg (energy stored per kilo) and 260 Wh/L (energy stored per liter)...

The E2 is the longest-range electric transit bus on the market and recently proved as much with a record-breaking 1101.2 miles on a single charge. The feat was confirmed by the Navistar Proving Grounds where the bus ran at a constant speed of 15 miles per hour for what amounts to an insane 73+ hours...


http://gas2.org/2017/09/19/proterra-lg- ... y-density/

This is a production model BTW.

No, it won't get that range on the freeway, but probably could make the San Francisco to Los Angeles run, non-stop.

Proterra Counters Tesla's 'Beast' Of A Semi With 1,100-Mile Range Electric Bus

..The range test wasn’t done just to show off, but to demonstrate a variant of Proterra’s current lineup that will be offered for sale, CEO Ryan Popple told Forbes.

“It's our maximum range configuration, but it's still a production version of the bus; not a custom long-range vehicle,” he said. “It's actually a vehicle we're proposing for certain bus transit (projects) that require extremely long range.”...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsma ... 0d83ed2317
no condition is permanent

GRA
Posts: 7542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:33 pm

Via GCC:
Camden to received NJ’s first electric buses; Proterra purchase supported by Low-No grant
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/10/20171003-camden.html

ChargEVC, a non-profit coalition supporting the adoption of electric vehicles in New Jersey, announced that Camden, NJ will see the state’s first electric buses. Supported with a $500,00 Federal Transit Administration (FTA) Low or No Emission Vehicle Deployment Grant (Low-No), NJ Transit is purchasing battery-electric buses from Proterra, a ChargEVC member. When deployed, the Proterra Catalyst buses, designed and manufactured in the US, will operate out of Camden’s Newton Avenue Garage. . . .

Each Proterra bus will eliminate more than 243,000 lbs. of CO2 and help to improve air quality for the Camden community. These transit vehicles will also provide marked savings. With lower year-over-year operation and maintenance costs resulting from having thirty percent fewer parts, and lower and more stable fueling costs when compared to a standard diesel bus, NJ Transit has the potential to achieve more than $450,000 in operational savings, per vehicle, over 12 years, according to ChargEVC.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:40 pm

Via GCC:
BYD unveils North America’s largest electric bus factory; capacity for up to 1,500 vehicles annually
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/10/20171010-byd.html

BYD, the world’s largest manufacturer of electric vehicles, unveiled its expanded battery-electric bus manufacturing facility in Lancaster, California—North America’s largest. . . .

BYD has delivered 137 electric buses in the US and Canada, including more than 75 buses delivered in 2017. BYD is currently producing an additional 300 buses based on current customer orders and has options for more than 300 additional electric bus purchases.

BYD’s buses operate in transit agencies, universities and airports across North America, with more than 40 customers including LA Metro, Los Angeles Department of Transportation, Stanford University, UCLA, UC San Francisco, UC Irvine, Anaheim Resort Transportation, Long Beach Transit, Denver Regional Transportation District, City of Albuquerque, SolTrans, SunLine Transit, Link Transit, COMO Connect, Antelope Valley Transit Authority, and others. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4347
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Boca Raton FL

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:16 pm

http://d31hzlhk6di2h5.cloudfront.net/20 ... low-No.pdf

Ordering seven more Proterra buses bringing the total to 13, about 1/3 of the fleet.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue

GRA
Posts: 7542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:15 pm

Via GCC:
Proterra beats out BYD for Mineta San José International Airport electric bus contract; 10 Proterra electric buses to be in service by late 2018
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/11/20171108-sjc.html

. . . Proterra’s E2 series 35-foot electric buses feature a 440 kWh battery pack to deliver an estimated range of 251 miles. Proterra was bidding against BYD for the airport contract. With a per-bus price of $759,824, Proterra beat out BYD with a per-bus price of $969,498. . . .

With 12 million passengers annually, SJC currently provides on-site shuttle buses to transport passengers and luggage among the airport’s short- and long-term parking lots, consolidated rental car garage and terminals, with a fleet of compressed natural gas (CNG) buses. Funded in part by a $3.8-million zero-emissions vehicle grant from the Federal Aviation Administration, the new Proterra battery-electric buses will replace these older CNG buses, resulting in the elimination 3.1 million pounds of greenhouse gas tailpipe emissions over the lifetime of these vehicles.
Since the Proterra electric buses have no combustion engine, riders will enjoy a quieter, smoother, exhaust-free ride. In addition to traveler benefits, the operational cost of electricity, at $.19/mile, is substantially lower than diesel, at $.84/mile.

Combining this with greatly improved vehicle efficiency, at 21 MPG equivalent, vs. 5 MPG for their current CNG buses and reduced vehicle maintenance costs will result in an estimated savings of about $4 million during the 12-year lifetime of these ten new Proterra buses. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”