Valdemar
Posts: 2535
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:26 am

I took a closer look yesterday at LA Auto Show. Given a choice of the Kona and the Bolt, I don't know why would one buy the Bolt except for availability reasons.
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GRA
Posts: 9874
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:08 pm

Valdemar wrote:I took a closer look yesterday at LA Auto Show. Given a choice of the Kona and the Bolt, I don't know why would one buy the Bolt except for availability reasons.

If the seats don't bother you (like Keijidosha they're fine for me, at least the cloth ones in the LT I drove were), per the Edmunds' test driving dynamics would give the nod to the Bolt if you're someone who likes to drive fast in the twisties - even though I didn't have the chance to do so when I drove one, I really liked the Bolt's regen controls and general feel. If the Kona comes in about the same price or less than the Bolt it's undoubtedly a better value for the dollar, and the better ride would give it the nod for A to B commuting on the potholed, truck-waved freeways we have.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:22 pm

IEVS:
Hyundai Kona Electric Gets Range Downgraded Too: Follows Kia Niro EV
https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-range-lowered-wltp/

When the specifications for the 64-kWh version of the Hyundai Kona Electric first appeared, it was graced with a range of 292 miles under Worldwide harmonized Light vehicles Test Procedure (WLTP). If it seemed a little too good to be true, that’s because it was. The automaker has learned that the external agency responsible for making the calculation slipped up, and Hyundai has now published new, lower figures.

According to a report in Autocar, the 64-kWh Kona Electric is now rated at 279 miles under the WLTP, while the 39.2-kWh version — which will not be available in the U.S. — has been downgraded from 186 miles to 180 miles. The news comes after learning that its corporate cousin, the Kia Niro EV (e-Niro), suffered the same fate. . . .

In the U.S., meanwhile, the EPA has rated the 64-kWh Kona Electric at 258 miles, which we believe is a more realistic figure. For its part, the (64-kWh) Kia Niro EV was given a more believable 239 miles of travel on a charge using the U.S. agency test.

Now the WLTP to EPA numbers make more sense.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9874
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:07 pm

GCC:
Hyundai prices Kona Electric starting at $36,450 before Fed tax credit
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/12/20181215-kona.html

Hyundai announced that the starting price for the 2019 Kona Electric electric crossover is $36,450, for an effective net price of $28,950 ($29,995 including delivery), with the electric vehicle tax credit of $7,500 factored in. . . .

That's a base MSRP only $170 less than the Bolt LT, although you get more car for that.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2009
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:36 pm

Indeed. Compared to the Bolt, it is 5% cheaper, has a 7% larger battery, 8% longer range, 0.5% more power... Then there are the subjective measures of comfort, etc. It's a good incremental improvement for sure. The Bolt is due for a mid-cycle refresh in 2020 or so. It will be interesting to see whether Chevy responds with their own incremental improvements.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

alozzy
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:02 pm

Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
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LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

JeffN
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 20 May 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:28 pm

I just wrote this new article with lots of new details about the Kona Electric’s battery pack layout and liquid thermal management. It will be interesting to compare this to what Nissan reveals about the forthcoming LEAF e-Plus pack.

Exclusive: details on Hyundai’s new battery thermal management design

Hyundai’s new 2019 Kona Electric, with its 64 kWh battery and an EPA-rated 258 miles of range, has gotten many positive initial reviews but until now we haven’t known much about some important aspects of its internal powertrain design.

....Now, Hyundai has revealed these details to Electric Revs for their new generation of all-electric cars.

https://electricrevs.com/2018/12/20/exc ... nt-design/

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:13 pm

It's always nice to read a piece with no typos or mistakes. Good job. I do have one question:

When a dedicated 2 kW battery heater is available (as in the Canadian version), it is used primarily at sub-zero temperatures (0C or 32F) or when the driver enables an optional “Winter Mode”. The battery heater, if present, is located outside the battery pack and warms the liquid “coolant” just before it enters into the pack.


Battery warming really starts at 32F?
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JeffN
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 20 May 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:12 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:It's always nice to read a piece with no typos or mistakes. Good job. I do have one question:

When a dedicated 2 kW battery heater is available (as in the Canadian version), it is used primarily at sub-zero temperatures (0C or 32F) or when the driver enables an optional “Winter Mode”. The battery heater, if present, is located outside the battery pack and warms the liquid “coolant” just before it enters into the pack.


Battery warming really starts at 32F?

My understanding is that battery warming using the dedicated battery heater, if present, starts at 32F if “Winter Mode” is disabled.

Some amount of heat will be exchanged from the motor, motor inverter, and on-board charger when the battery heater is not being used and temperatures are cool but above around 32F.

jjeff
Posts: 1787
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Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:36 pm

JeffN wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:It's always nice to read a piece with no typos or mistakes. Good job. I do have one question:

When a dedicated 2 kW battery heater is available (as in the Canadian version), it is used primarily at sub-zero temperatures (0C or 32F) or when the driver enables an optional “Winter Mode”. The battery heater, if present, is located outside the battery pack and warms the liquid “coolant” just before it enters into the pack.


Battery warming really starts at 32F?

My understanding is that battery warming using the dedicated battery heater, if present, starts at 32F if “Winter Mode” is disabled.

Some amount of heat will be exchanged from the motor, motor inverter, and on-board charger when the battery heater is not being used and temperatures are cool but above around 32F.

I think you mean, and the article states "the battery heater is used primarily at sub-zero temperatures (0C or 32F) or when the driver enables an optional “Winter Mode”.
Which makes more sense to me :)
As an EV'er in a northern climate which can get as cold or colder than areas of Canada, I'm not too happy that the winter mode will not be available to people in the US, only Canada :x at least for the '19 model year. I also dislike that without the winter mode, you'll be stuck with just a resistive heater and not the much more efficient(at least at moderate(teens F and above temp) heat pump heater) :( which I feel is pretty short-sighted as it's in just those moderate temps(and not sub-zero F temps) that a heat pump heater shines.
Another interesting point from the article:
"The winter mode uses extra energy to warm the battery pack to allow for full regenerative braking and quicker fast DC charging. Colder pack temperatures force the battery management system to restrict the amount of power that can recharge the battery in order to avoid damaging the carbon graphite anode. This is an issue common to most lithium ion batteries. Cold temperatures are not much of an issue for power coming out of the battery except under rare and extreme conditions like down near -40 degrees."
Luckily we rarely get below 20F in Minneapolis, -30F is about as cold as it ever gets. Northern MN is different where it can get -40F several times per winter but few people live in those areas and because things are so spread out there, an EV probably wouldn't be as practical.
Another quote indicating "winter mode" is enabled to start battery heating.
"When temperatures are really cold, the dedicated battery heater kicks in (if present) even if “Winter Mode” isn’t enabled."
Oh and if I did my calculations correct, the weight of just the battery cells of the 64kWh would weigh ~525lbs, guessing closer to 600lbs or more with the case and coolant loop material(just an FYI).
I agree with Leftie, a nice and very informative article :)
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