lilly
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Owners' comparison Tesla Model 3 vs NIssan Leaf

Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:36 am

Ok,

So, I bought a Tesla Model 3 and I also have a Nissan Leaf. Trying to decide what to buy? Here's the scoop....

Nissan Leaf;
The Leaf is more user friendly than the Tesla Model 3. All the buttons, dials and gauges are exactly where you expect them to be. A 90 year old man would have no problems driving a Nissan Leaf. I love the one pedal driving. It reduces stress while driving in city traffic and promotes smooth driving instead of abrupt starts and stops. All passengers of my Leaf compliment me on my smooth driving. The hatchback design with foldable rear seats make it very practical. The seats are cloth so they don't burn your bottom in hot weather. The acceleration on my 2018 Leaf is pretty good. It keeps up with traffic and has no problems merging on the highway. The acceleration is buttery smooth since there is no transmission. It is a very good driver friendly car. There is no vampire drain with normal use (I am about to go on a long trip, so I shall find out about long term storage vampire drain, if it exists).

Tesla Model 3;
The M3 is NOT a car. It is not user friendly at all. There is no speedometer. The speed displays on the lcd screen off to the side, not in your line of sight while driving. The trunk space is decent, almost a usable as the leaf. Some of the trunk space is in the front as a "frunk" but that is not usable as the frunk is very shallow. It can fit a carry on bag or two briefcases. The interior is plastic (vegan leather, lol) so it might burn your butt in hot weather, however, I don't know for sure because I have not driven it yet in hot weather. There are zero dials, gauges, and buttons in this car. Everything, even the glovebox is controlled by the lcd screen. This is not user friendly to go through a menu tree to find the glove box just to open it. However, the M3 has a much longer range, goes much faster, and has better autonomous driving.

Conclusion;
If you do not need extended range, high speed driving, and autonomous driving, go with the Leaf. It is a better driving car. If you want bleeding edge tech, go with the Tesla Model 3. The NIssan Leaf is a car but the Tesla Model 3 is the future of transportation. Elon Musk plans on making tunnels for autonomous cars that can go 125 to 150 mph so you can bypass traffic jams. The nissan leaf has a top speed of 87 mph, so you won't be able to use these tunnels with the Leaf, even if you have the autonomous driving option. However, the Leaf costs much less, so you'll save some money.

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mwalsh
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Re: Owners' comparison Tesla Model 3 vs NIssan Leaf

Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:09 pm

That's interesting. I never before considered that Tesla might be designing vehicles that aren't intended for human beings to drive themselves on open roads, but now I kinda am. ;)
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Zythryn
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Re: Owners' comparison Tesla Model 3 vs NIssan Leaf

Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:24 pm

That's interesting, I would say exactly the opposite.
I would be interested in your opinion after a few months with the 3.
When we tried out a Leaf, nothing made sense and it was very confusing. The 3, to us, just makes sense.

I suspect both your case, and ours, was affected to some extent by what we were used to.
Previous owner of Prius, Volt, Leaf & Model S
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SageBrush
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Re: Owners' comparison Tesla Model 3 vs NIssan Leaf

Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:19 pm

Saying the Model 3 is not a car is about as silly as saying it does not have a speedometer. It is, and it does.
The interface is different but not particularly unusual and easy to get used to.

We own both a LEAF and a Model 3 and I like driving both of the cars albeit for different reasons. The LEAF is quiet; the Model 3 is quiet and responsive. Since I drive the Model 3 most of time I do have a moment of uncertainty in the LEAF where I have to remember to 'start' and 'turn off' the car. The Model 3 is superior as a car and of course much more functional. The LEAF is cheaper.
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11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
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opencar
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Re: Owners' comparison Tesla Model 3 vs NIssan Leaf

Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:10 pm

i love both cars. the LEAF is the practical around-town econocar that is competent without any drama. the Model 3 is the super fun, fast, long distance, high tech sports sedan that is always exciting to take for a spin.
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RonDawg
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Re: Owners' comparison Tesla Model 3 vs NIssan Leaf

Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:56 pm

I had a Leaf for 3 years (OK, 35 months) and while I never owned a Model 3, I did rent one for a couple of days through Turo. There were great things about the Model 3, and annoyances that made me want to pull my hair out.

The Model 3 was extremely awkward to enter and exit, due to its low-slung nature but an unexpectedly high floor. It was made worse by an electrically-operated tilt steering wheel that for some stupid reason didn’t automatically retract when you put the car in park and opened the door (I understand Tesla has since added this feature via a software update).

The gigantic center screen was great for some things (navigation for example) but terrible for others (speedometer, tasks that should be accomplished with buttons like the glovebox). HUD should have been made available on this car.

Rear visibility was horrible, it was like trying to back up a UHaul. Backing up via camera is a must with this car.

I didn’t mind the vegan leather interior; I think it feels nicer than the “leatherette” of my eGolf. I liked the sound system of the car I had, though I couldn’t figure out how to select individual playlists from my iPhone. And Tesla doesn’t believe in Sirius XM capability, so you have to use their own streaming service (forget which one). I did like the selection and the sound quality was superior to SXM.

I loved the adaptive cruise control and its ease of operation. I couldn’t say the same for the auto-steering; it tended to wander from side to side in the lane, and on even gentle curves you wonder when the car is going to start turning. I was not impressed. I would opt for the adaptive cruise and leave auto-steer off, but unfortunately it’s all or nothing (both come as part of AutoPilot. (I understand the auto steer portion of AutoPilot has been vastly improved with a software update.) Didn’t always recognize speed limit changes, not sure if it actually reads street signs or is using some sort of database like many GPS systems do.

Acceleration was of course nice, though I didn’t flog the car nor put it in “ludicrous” mode. Car was surprisingly not that quiet, not sure if due to the tires or if there was a lack of sound insulation. I’ve been in ICEVs that were quieter.

Quality control on the car I had was quite good, but of course I have no idea if it actually rolled out of Fremont that way, or had to be returned for fixing.

Overall, I felt the car was a mixed bag. Some brilliant features and design decisions, others head-scratching. One thing that Tesla does better than anybody else (including ICEVs) is the ability to get over the air updates just like your smartphone.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

cwerdna
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Re: Owners' comparison Tesla Model 3 vs NIssan Leaf

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:07 pm

RonDawg wrote:. And Tesla doesn’t believe in Sirius XM capability, so you have to use their own streaming service (forget which one). I did like the selection and the sound quality was superior to SXM.
...
Car was surprisingly not that quiet, not sure if due to the tires or if there was a lack of sound insulation. I’ve been in ICEVs that were quieter.

Quality control on the car I had was quite good, but of course I have no idea if it actually rolled out of Fremont that way, or had to be returned for fixing.

Overall, I felt the car was a mixed bag. Some brilliant features and design decisions, others head-scratching. One thing that Tesla does better than anybody else (including ICEVs) is the ability to get over the air updates just like your smartphone.

I believe you're talking about TuneIn.

I've only taken a ride a guy's 3 (P3D), so I did hear some motor noise from the back that I believe is louder than what I'd hear on my Leaf w/the motor in front of me. His car had a whole bunch of external assembly defects which I think I've posted about before.

Funny enough, I bumped into him today at work when I wasn't there to work. He was working on installing his front plate bracket and plate. We chatted more about his 3 while we were standing next to it. He brought up the whole California car thing (not being designed well for colder environments) and mentioned to me that when you open the trunk, the water ends up in the trunk. They had the channels set up and all, but the water doesn't flow into them. He got his "lopsided" trunk fixed by Tesla and a few (?) other things corrected but some others he didn't want to have them mess with.

His car will be one of the few 3 at my work with a front plate. Apparently, the official Tesla front plate bracket is a stick on w/3 strips of adhesive. I've never seen an OEM one that was that way. It didn't look like the curvature of the bumper cover and what was built into the bracket were exactly matched. It looked like there was a gap. Anyway, I left and he moved his car outside from the parking garage to finish (?) working on it.

Yeah, the OTA updates are great, until there are regressions. Three folks on my floor at work w/3's ran into a problem where their J1772 adapter wouldn't release and they got a red light. One of them ended up having to use the emergency release. This is all within about a week of each other. At the time, I suspected a recent software update as none of them (AFAIK) had this prob before.

The above guy also had a case at home where the Tesla proprietary connector wouldn't release from the car and he had to use the emergency release from the trunk.

I agree with the bolded part. Too many to post about now. Some of the head-scratchers are carryovers from the S and X, which Tesla had been doing wrong for years and continued to do so with the 3.

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lilly
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Re: Owners' comparison Tesla Model 3 vs NIssan Leaf

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:50 pm

SageBrush wrote:Saying the Model 3 is not a car is about as silly as saying it does not have a speedometer. It is, and it does.


No, the Tesla Model 3 is DEFINITELY NOT a car. It is an autonomous transportation device from the future. A car is meant to be driven. A Tesla can be driven like a car. However, the driving functions take a back seat to autonomous vehicle operation. Look inside the M3 above the rear view mirror. There is a video camera shooting video INSIDE the M3. Why? Is it because Elon Musk works for the NSA? No. Think. I reason that it must be there to keep track of the M3 so that your customers won't mess it up because they are being video recorded. The M3 is ready with the hardware for autonomous Uber-like services. That's why the M3 doors can be unlocked via phone app, so after the customer pays, the M3 will let him in the autonomous vehicle.

Also, car manufacturers generally don't put things in a car unless they really think you'll need them. This is because if they put stuff you don't need in the car, they'll have decreased profit margins. Why, then, does the Tesla Model 3 go 125 to 155 mph? The Leaf only goes 87 mph because the speed limit is only 75 mph. Speeds above 87 mph are not necessary. Why is it necessary for Tesla to make the Model 3 go over 125 mph? Check out Elon Musk's Boring company. He plans on building tunnels only for autonomous vehicles to go 125 to 155 mph in order to bypass traffic jams in cities with bad traffic such as L.A. This will be a "killer app" for autonomous driving. I have sat in L.A. traffic before. It took 2 hours to go 4 miles. At 155 mph, you could go anywhere in the greater L.A. area in less than 15 minutes.

Why do you think that Teslas have such a gigantic lcd screen? The Leaf has a tiny screen because Nissan thinks that's all that's necessary for a car that needs a human driver. I mean, you can't watch youtube on your lcd screen while driving, right? With autonomous driving, the humans in the M3 will be bored and need to watch Youtube or Hulu or Netflix. That's why Teslas all have that gigantic lcd screen.

No, the Model 3 has no speedometer. A speedometer is a "meter" for speed. It is a dial that is in front of you, for easy visibility. The stupid speed on the lcd screen's corner is NOT a speedometer. It is an afterthought. This Tesla model 3 is NOT a car. It is an autonomous transportation device from the future. I predict that in a couple of years, owners of Teslas will wake up one morning and via an OTA update, their Tesla will be able to take them anywhere via a voice command. No driving would be necessary. You'd be able to go anywhere in the greater metropolitan area of any city in less than 15 minutes. Once you've experienced this, nobody would ever want to travel by land in a "car" ever again. The difference between a Tesla and a "car" is like the difference between a smart phone and a flip phone. Once you've used a smart phone, you'll never use a flip phone ever again.

That's why I bought the Tesla Model 3. I want to wake up one morning and be living in the future before anyone else. Until then, my Leaf is actually a better driving car but it is definitely NOT the future of land transportation.

cwerdna
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Re: Owners' comparison Tesla Model 3 vs NIssan Leaf

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:59 pm

lilly wrote:Also, car manufacturers generally don't put things in a car unless they really think you'll need them. This is because if they put stuff you don't need in the car, they'll have decreased profit margins. Why, then, does the Tesla Model 3 go 125 to 155 mph? The Leaf only goes 87 mph because the speed limit is only 75 mph. Speeds above 87 mph are not necessary. Why is it necessary for Tesla to make the Model 3 go over 125 mph? Check out Elon Musk's Boring company. He plans on building tunnels only for autonomous vehicles to go 125 to 155 mph in order to bypass traffic jams in cities with bad traffic such as L.A. This will be a "killer app" for autonomous driving. I have sat in L.A. traffic before. It took 2 hours to go 4 miles. At 155 mph, you could go anywhere in the greater L.A. area in less than 15 minutes.

Regarding top speeds, Tesla's a company about hype and also, Elon doesn't like selling "low performance" (in terms of acceleration) vehicles.

Montana speed limits are apparently at 80 mph on interstates: https://www.mdt.mt.gov/visionzero/roads ... mits.shtml. Teslas (and many other vehicles) are sold in places with no speed limits (e.g. certain parts of the Autobahn). Generally, if not drag limited, automakers tend to set ICEV governed upper speed limits as dictated by the speed ratings on the tires (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech ... ?techid=35) it ships with. IIRC, my 02 Maxima was governed at around 130 mph or a bit less (memory foggy). Some trim levels (e.g. SE) were IIRC governed for a bit higher. My 04 350Z was governed or drag limited at 155 or 156 mph, which was (IIRC) quite a common top speed for sports/sportier cars back then.

IIRC, my wimpy 110 hp 06 (gen 2) Prius I believe is governed around 108 mph (memory foggy). https://priuschat.com/threads/what-is-t ... ost-973329 reported an indicated on the speedo max of 180 km/h (~112 mph) but actual was a bit lower due to speedometer error. He has a gen 2.

I think I watched this ages ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOP-ExEj8KM which shows a gen 3 Prius on the Autobahn. I see him hitting 194 km/h (about 120.5 mph) at ~1:02.

BTW, I think I did watch https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-autobahn-cutback/ awhile back. Text mentions he got up to 140 mph. (The 3 isn't even shipping in Europe yet.) At 2:26 into the video, you can see he's at 227 kph or ~141 mph.

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Nubo
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Re: Owners' comparison Tesla Model 3 vs NIssan Leaf

Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:43 pm

mwalsh wrote:That's interesting. I never before considered that Tesla might be designing vehicles that aren't intended for human beings to drive themselves on open roads, but now I kinda am. ;)


It seems to me Tesla consider human drivers to be an unfortunate but temporary annoyance.

As for high top speeds being necessary for tunnel systems, it's my understanding that the cars will fit into standardized and controlled cradles which will provide the propulsion instead of the car.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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