SageBrush
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:02 am

dgpcolorado wrote:
GRA wrote:Per a poster on TMC the Leavenworth, WA SC near the junction of U.S. 2 and 97 is now working, although it remains unofficial - in fact, Tesla doesn't even show an SC by that name or on any town nearby on their SC list. This is the first U.S. SC which expands coverage (rather than being infill) since Estes Park, IIRR. About the only new U.S. SC of the 22 known to be under construction that could even be argued is an expansion is York, PA at the junction of I-83 and U.S. 30, and that's stretching a point.
Aspen CO was expansion, as opposed to infill. There are lots of "in permitting" locations that are expansion.

However, infill is useful too, especially in very crowded places such as California and the East Coast.

Infill predominates when expansion is close to complete since the effort is then focused on areas with high Tesla penetration.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:17 am

I used the Farmington, NM Supercharger this week. I arrived with ~ 27% battery SoC and left with 60%. 98 EPA miles of range added in 15 minutes. Cost $3.3 + $0.23 tax, so about 3.6 cents a mile.

Details:
Model 3 LR
Started at 114 kW, ended at 90 kW
10 of the 15 minute stay spent on bio-breaks
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:20 am

SageBrush wrote:
dgpcolorado wrote:
GRA wrote:Per a poster on TMC the Leavenworth, WA SC near the junction of U.S. 2 and 97 is now working, although it remains unofficial - in fact, Tesla doesn't even show an SC by that name or on any town nearby on their SC list. This is the first U.S. SC which expands coverage (rather than being infill) since Estes Park, IIRR. About the only new U.S. SC of the 22 known to be under construction that could even be argued is an expansion is York, PA at the junction of I-83 and U.S. 30, and that's stretching a point.
Aspen CO was expansion, as opposed to infill. There are lots of "in permitting" locations that are expansion.

However, infill is useful too, especially in very crowded places such as California and the East Coast.

Infill predominates when expansion is close to complete since the effort is then focused on areas with high Tesla penetration.

Unfortunately expansion is nowhere close to complete, as even the primary Interstate system still lacks SCs on several routes or legs (I-10/15/20/25/29/35/40/55/75/94/95, and then there are all the U.S. and state highways that need to be covered. The need for the latter two is primarily out west, where the distances between interstates are much greater, and numerous outdoor recreation sites are only accessible well off the interstates. East of the Mississippi the interstate density is usually high enough that it's only necessary to have SCs on them at junctions with U.S. or state highways to serve the areas in between them. For example, compare the area bounded by Interstates 68/81/64/79, mainly in Virginia/West Virginia, with the Four Corners area bounded by Interstates 70/25/40/15, which encompasses parts of California/Nevada/Utah/Colorado/New Mexico/Arizona.

Re slowing of expansion, see https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/901kt2/tesla_abandons_plans_for_superchargers_along_i94/

A source from Tesla has confirmed that Alexandria, MN site has been the hold up on the I94 route. They will look for new site nearby, but won’t try to continue work on the I-94 route until next spring. This likely means I-29 and the trans-Canada route (which Elon said on Twitter would all be complete in 2018) will also be delayed as a result. This makes the 4th year in a row Tesla has planned Superchargers in North Dakota and failed to deliver (Supercharger section on Tesla’s website once claimed ND super chargers were coming in 2015).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:18 pm

GRA wrote:Per a poster on TMC the Leavenworth, WA SC near the junction of U.S. 2 and 97 is now working, although it remains unofficial - in fact, Tesla doesn't even show an SC by that name or on any town nearby on their SC list. <snip>

It's now official, and apparently replaces the planned SC in Wenatchee, which has now been removed from Tesla's SC list (it was listed as 'Coming soon').

I had some outdoorsy friends who recently completed a road trip from the Bay Area: I-5 to Ashland, OR, then cut over to U.S. 97 via Crater Lake and up through Peachland, Kelowna, Revelstoke, Golden and Lake Louise to Jasper NP in B.C., then back to Lake Louise, Waterton NP, Stanley ID then through SE Oregon (Steens Mtns.) and NE California (Warner Mtns) and back to the Bay Area; not sure whether they came down U.S. 395 to Reno and then I-80 or cut back over to I-5. If they had a Tesla the Leavenworth SC site (wasn't open yet) plus the 'coming soon' ones listed for Okanogan and Osoyoos would have been needed, plus several others that aren't even posited by Tesla as of yet.

The places we tend to travel to by car, our beyond the road end recreations and our typical 'lodgings' consisting of a ground cloth/bivy sac or at most a tent/snow cave, plus sleeping pad and bag are similar, which is why BEVs simply don't work yet for people like us, at least given any time constraints and if you avoid RV parks like the plague. As he's always owned Volvo wagons I have hopes of convincing them to go BEV in a few years when Volvo BEV wagons are available and the CCS infrastructure's better, especially since I talked them into getting a grid-intertie PV system a few years back (not a hard sell, as 25 years ago I'd designed and installed the off-grid PV system on the backcountry ski hut in Yosemite where he spends much of the winter as caretaker/ranger). Or maybe his wife will get a BEV first, when it's time to replace her RAV4.


Edit: The York, PA SC officially opened today, so there are now zero expansion of coverage SCs under construction in the U.S.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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jlv
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:10 am

GRA wrote:I had some outdoorsy friends who recently completed a road trip from the Bay Area: I-5 to Ashland, OR, then cut over to U.S. 97 via Crater Lake and up through Peachland, Kelowna, Revelstoke, Golden and Lake Louise to Jasper NP in B.C., then back to Lake Louise, Waterton NP, Stanley ID then through SE Oregon (Steens Mtns.) and NE California (Warner Mtns) and back to the Bay Area; not sure whether they came down U.S. 395 to Reno and then I-80 or cut back over to I-5. If they had a Tesla the Leavenworth SC site (wasn't open yet) plus the 'coming soon' ones listed for Okanogan and Osoyoos would have been needed, plus several others that aren't even posited by Tesla as of yet.

Just the Bay Area to Jasper NP is over a 1300 mile trip. It's actually doable with an S100D using just SCs right now, although you'd need charging at the destination in order to make the return trip. With an X or smaller battery S you'd need longer SC stops as well as an additional stop to charge after Kamloops to reach all the way to Jasper NP.
Image
Alternately, with a 3 LR you'd be able shave almost an hour of charging time, but incur $65 in SC fees.
Image

But that's already an exceptional trip -- a fraction of 1% will every make such a trip.
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17) 32K miTesla S 75D (3/17) 22K mi
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jlv
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:14 am

I realized I didn't map the trip as described. This is closer to your friend's trip. This is faster even with the 56MPH limited leg (in red) than the two alternatives.
Image


This 1650 mile trip (one way) is again something that not many people will ever undertake. And the above was all managed with SC (albeit the need to charge while at Jasper NP if you ever want to go home).

(My son does trips like this; he lives in Bend - I didn't realize there was a SC there).
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17) 32K miTesla S 75D (3/17) 22K mi
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GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:35 pm

jlv wrote:
GRA wrote:I had some outdoorsy friends who recently completed a road trip from the Bay Area: I-5 to Ashland, OR, then cut over to U.S. 97 via Crater Lake and up through Peachland, Kelowna, Revelstoke, Golden and Lake Louise to Jasper NP in B.C., then back to Lake Louise, Waterton NP, Stanley ID then through SE Oregon (Steens Mtns.) and NE California (Warner Mtns) and back to the Bay Area; not sure whether they came down U.S. 395 to Reno and then I-80 or cut back over to I-5. If they had a Tesla the Leavenworth SC site (wasn't open yet) plus the 'coming soon' ones listed for Okanogan and Osoyoos would have been needed, plus several others that aren't even posited by Tesla as of yet.

Just the Bay Area to Jasper NP is over a 1300 mile trip. It's actually doable with an S100D using just SCs right now, although you'd need charging at the destination in order to make the return trip. With an X or smaller battery S you'd need longer SC stops as well as an additional stop to charge after Kamloops to reach all the way to Jasper NP.

Image


Yup, all they need is a $95k car to do a trip that any $15k ICE can do easily as well as faster.

jlv wrote:Alternately, with a 3 LR you'd be able shave almost an hour of charging time, but incur $65 in SC fees.
Image

But that's already an exceptional trip -- a fraction of 1% will every make such a trip.

Now we're down to only $49k, when the median LDV price is currently $36k, and the favorite vehicle type for such people are wagons or CUVs. Sure, such trips are a minority, but I and many of the people I know make many such trips, if not typically that far then to places just as far away from SCs and in many cases any other charging. I've driven to Colorado and back 3 times on such trips, to Wyoming once, Utah several times, Oregon, Washington and New Mexico, many of which remain impossible to do with SCs (e.g. there aren't any on U.S. 50 across Nevada). While active outdoorsy types are a small minority of car buyers, they have a very strong motivation to go ZEV for environmental reasons. They are a natural market which currently remains unserved because as of yet the cars and infrastructure can't get them where they want to go, at least not without designing the whole trip around the needs of the car and wasting a great amount of their precious free time waiting for the car to charge, in places they have no desire to be.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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jlv
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:36 am

GRA wrote:Now we're down to only $49k,
:?
Then I'm not really sure why you posted about the trip in a thread about the Supercharger Network. Such trips - even beyond the edge of SC coverage today, are quite doable with what Tesla sells.

I keep seeing "best is the enemy of good enough" and really think that applies here.
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:06 am

GRA wrote:[quote="j

Yup, all they need is a $95k car to do a trip that any $15k ICE can do easily as well as faster.

.


You can fly as well what's the point of that comparison? If the SC network was 4X the size non Tesla owners would still say it's inadequate. The great part as always is they can buy another EV like a LEAF or drive an ICE. You don't need a $95K Tesla to do this unless you want an X with a tow package to haul along a LEAF on a trailer.
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GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:58 pm

jlv wrote:
GRA wrote:Now we're down to only $49k,
:?
Then I'm not really sure why you posted about the trip in a thread about the Supercharger Network. Such trips - even beyond the edge of SC coverage today, are quite doable with what Tesla sells.

I keep seeing "best is the enemy of good enough" and really think that applies here.

I posted because it's not yet good enough, and what needs to happen to make it so. Just being doable doesn't cut it. Tony Williams drove his LEAF BC to BC without any QCs in most of California, so we know that it's doable, but that doesn't make it a practical use of someone's time given the available options. If we all had unlimited amounts of free time and the ability spend as much money as necessary so that trip speed was irrelevant, peachy. That eliminates everyone who isn't retired and wealthy.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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