DanCar
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:07 pm

AndyH wrote:According to the world nuclear.org web site. ;) Since all bananas are the same size and have exactly the same soil, I'm sure that's a uniform number...

It doesn't matter, however, how we try to trivialize the damage because even the nuclear industry doesn't know how low levels will affect things. Some types of low-level radiation make seeds germinate more quickly while some stop germination entirely. It's a bit of a crap shoot - we know much, more more about the effects of high level/short duration exposure than chronic low-level exposure. This and continued study around Chernobyl are starting to fill in some of the blank pages...
The point is that banana was the lowest on the chart. Those low levels are so low, that they are indeed trivial compared to other sources of radiation.

AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:44 am

DanCar wrote:
AndyH wrote:According to the world nuclear.org web site. ;) Since all bananas are the same size and have exactly the same soil, I'm sure that's a uniform number...

It doesn't matter, however, how we try to trivialize the damage because even the nuclear industry doesn't know how low levels will affect things. Some types of low-level radiation make seeds germinate more quickly while some stop germination entirely. It's a bit of a crap shoot - we know much, more more about the effects of high level/short duration exposure than chronic low-level exposure. This and continued study around Chernobyl are starting to fill in some of the blank pages...
The point is that banana was the lowest on the chart. Those low levels are so low, that they are indeed trivial compared to other sources of radiation.

Assigning "trivial" to a level of anything is a judgment best done with supporting data. As already pointed out, we don't have enough data yet to declare that it's 'trivial' in isolation - much less when the material is being fed into a complex system that's being stressed by other forces.

While bananas are fine for 170 lb adult humans and their offspring, that same dose is expected to be a bit more harsh on plankton.
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DanCar
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:15 pm

AndyH wrote:... While bananas are fine for 170 lb adult humans and their offspring, that same dose is expected to be a bit more harsh on plankton.
Should we be fearing the mutant plankton?

LeftieBiker
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:16 pm

We should be fearing our own inability to deal with macro-scale disasters.
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DanCar
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:23 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:We should be fearing our own inability to deal with macro-scale disasters.
I wouldn't classify Fukishima as a macro scale disaster. As previously stated the radiation levels are barely detectable compared to other sources. On the flip side, fear is good. Only the paranoid survive and will make things safer.

AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:01 pm

DanCar wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:We should be fearing our own inability to deal with macro-scale disasters.
I wouldn't classify Fukishima as a macro scale disaster. As previously stated the radiation levels are barely detectable compared to other sources. On the flip side, fear is good. Only the paranoid survive and will make things safer.

One thing we know for sure: Since humans have existed on the planet the ones with the most blind hubris have led their followers to a less-than-fun time on this spinning rock...

Do you really think that the nuclear industry is short on shills?

Even college freshmen in the US are informed about how easily genetic mutations happen and how not all of them are repairable by the host organism. But hey - some in big pharma think that cancer is a good thing, so there's something on the planet for everyone to love...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/03/pacific-coast-sea-bird-dead_n_6411188.html
SALEM, Ore. (AP) — Scientists are trying to figure out what's behind the deaths of seabirds that have been found by the hundreds along the Pacific Coast since October....
"To be this lengthy and geographically widespread, I think is kind of unprecedented," Phillip Johnson, executive director of the Oregon Shores Conservation Coalition, told the Salem Statesman Journal (http://stjr.nl/1CZBwvU). "It's an interesting and somewhat mysterious event."

The birds appear to be starving to death, so experts don't believe a toxin is the culprit, said Julia Burco, a wildlife veterinarian for the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife.

But why the birds can't find food is a mystery....
Or a warmer, more acidic ocean could be affecting the supply of tiny zooplankton, such as krill, that the birds eat.

Or something else that's changed in the N Pacific ecosystem might be the cause.

This environmental science student thinks that ocean life should be able to keep their DNA on their terms, not ours. I also think that any nation not putting the precautionary principle at the top of their 'always do' list is building up plenty of less-than-good karma...
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AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:43 pm

DanCar wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:We should be fearing our own inability to deal with macro-scale disasters.
I wouldn't classify Fukishima as a macro scale disaster.

While it's heartening to know that the Fukushima disaster doesn't cross your personal danger threshold, it is bouncing off the ceiling of the highest level of 'nasty' that the nuclear disaster folks track. It's a 7 out of 7 - which is in the same ballpark as Chernobyl. Except that Chernobyl didn't continue to dump millions of tons of contaminated water into the world's largest fisheries for years after it blew the way Fukushima continues to do.
DanCar wrote: As previously stated the radiation levels are barely detectable compared to other sources. On the flip side, fear is good. Only the paranoid survive and will make things safer.

It's easy to make off-angle comments to try to trivialize concerns, isn't it? Keep something in mind, DanCar: While many humans believe they're at the 'top of the food chain' and therefore there will 'always' be plenty for us to eat, we're actually part of a complex food web and our existence relies on the stability of that web. The relatively low but chronic emissions from Japan are negatively affecting the bottom of the web. Climate change, our chemical pollution, radioactive water, and all the other garbage we're choosing to ignore is already negatively impacting the human experience - and it's just getting started.

Denial might provide temporary relief from pangs of conscience, but it will not stop the damage done when the consequences roll in.
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison

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AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:22 am

We used to believe that "dilution was the solution to pollution." Now we know better. We're also starting to understand that we're not the most important animal on the planet. We're very likely to be the most destructive, though.





Some think that more nuclear power is the solution to our carbon problem. Maybe that's as backwards as thinking that all that radioactive waste will just 'go away.'
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WetEV
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:45 am

AndyH wrote:We used to


I just have to tell you how impressed I am at your information war skills.
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DanCar
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:35 am

AndyH wrote:
Perhaps we should all help with the poo poo namis(1:40). lol Thanks for posting that video.

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