AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:11 pm

WetEV wrote:
AndyH wrote:In the spirit of openness and integrity, maybe you'd care to tell if, and if so how, you might be associated with the nuclear power industry. Cheers.
Oh, that smear again.

Short answer is basically none.

I do own shares in an S&P500 index fund that owns nuclear related stocks in the same exact fraction as those stocks are part of the index. The same index fund also owns Exxon stock. That is about as close as it gets.
I'm sorry you feel integrity and openness is a smear. Thanks for sharing though.

I too own SPDR shares for my son. I have zero connection with any power industry or generation modality outside of that index.

I served 21 years in the AF. I was trained and operated as an airbase survivability team member while stationed in England. During this time I wore dosimeters, carried a Geiger counter, performed nuclear, chemical/biological, and conventional testing/reporting and unexploded ordnance identification. We also set up and operated field decontamination lines for people and equipment. We were trained in NBC threats, symptoms, and initial first aid but were not doctors or EMTs. That was refreshed near the end of my career during my 13 months in Korea (6 minutes away by SCUD). In all cases, we retrained and exercised at least every three months. I was in Europe when Cherynobyl blew and did measure fallout while there. And partially because of that exposure, the Red Cross does not allow me to give either blood or platelets any longer.

I'm a disabed veteran and am in the VA system. I have some understanding of 'service connected' means, what it takes to confirm that service connection, and how long it takes in the best of conditions to get a response from the VA.

That's why I feel I have an insight into the work performed by the USS Reagan crews that responded to the Fukushima disaster - insights that I sincerely doubt you or other civilians really can understand at a visceral level. I know how it feels to be duct-taped into protective gear, double check equipment and walk out into an unknown environment to test surfaces for chemical agents and check radiation levels. But after I performed my duties and processed through a decontamination line, I knew my food and water was clean.

The folks on the Reagan had contaminated water and lived aboard a ship that was too radioactive to be allowed in port in both Japan and the Philippines.

While I hope that's easy enough to accept, I'm not going to lose sleep if anyone has a problem with any of it. I respect data - bring some please.

Andrew Hecker
MSgt, USAF, Retired
Overseas service in England, Germany, and Korea

edit...typos, missing word
Last edited by AndyH on Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Smidge204
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:39 pm

AndyH wrote:The 'lumps' are what brought the guy to the oncologist - the important word as far as I can tell is 'diagnosis'. ;)
Except nowhere in the article does it mention he was diagnosed with cancer, just "radiation poisoning." It doesn't say where he went to get diagnosis and there's no quote from a doctor.


AndyH wrote:Fair enough, Smidge, but as I've already said, my intent with the info on our military personnel that some apparently keep missing is that I'm NOT saying that every word in ANY news article is correct - what I'm saying is that 1. the military personnel are trained to operate in this environment and they were taken by surprise and 2. that the folks out every day decontaminating flight decks, aircraft, and each other were DRINKING, BATHING IN, and eating food PREPARED WITH contaminated water - not just standing in the sun or tasting the metallic air.
...on a nuclear powered ship. Do you suppose nuclear powered navy vessels - particularly those built during the cold war where nuclear weapons were an ever-present threat - would have devices and trained personnel on hand to monitor for safe radiation levels? Do you suppose that the water supply would be one of the things they would keep an eye on?

What you're basically advocating here, perhaps unintentionally, is a conspiracy that involves the ship's own crew to disable or bypass radiation safety measures, putting themselves and fellow crew members at risk.

Do you actually have credible evidence that the water used on the ship was contaminated?
=Smidge=

AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:34 pm

Smidge204 wrote:
AndyH wrote:The 'lumps' are what brought the guy to the oncologist - the important word as far as I can tell is 'diagnosis'. ;)
Except nowhere in the article does it mention he was diagnosed with cancer, just "radiation poisoning." It doesn't say where he went to get diagnosis and there's no quote from a doctor.
Smidge - you're not reading. I can tell because it IS clear that his diagnosis did in fact come from a doctor. The entire point of the charity outreach project is that these folks ARE being diagnosed and treated by oncologists and other specialists that are qualified to make such a diagnosis.
Smidge204 wrote:
AndyH wrote:Fair enough, Smidge, but as I've already said, my intent with the info on our military personnel that some apparently keep missing is that I'm NOT saying that every word in ANY news article is correct - what I'm saying is that 1. the military personnel are trained to operate in this environment and they were taken by surprise and 2. that the folks out every day decontaminating flight decks, aircraft, and each other were DRINKING, BATHING IN, and eating food PREPARED WITH contaminated water - not just standing in the sun or tasting the metallic air.
...on a nuclear powered ship. Do you suppose nuclear powered navy vessels - particularly those built during the cold war
The USS Ronald Reagan was ordered in 1994 and commissioned in 2001 - well after the cold war was over. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ronald_Reagan_(CVN-76)
Smidge204 wrote:... where nuclear weapons were an ever-present threat - would have devices and trained personnel on hand to monitor for safe radiation levels? Do you suppose that the water supply would be one of the things they would keep an eye on?
Maybe you could read the info I provided that confirms your suggestion and then also confirms that the ship's commander ordered the crew to stop using the contaminated water? Did you also not see the video posted of the crew coming back inside after a daily decontamination shift and tossing contaminated clothing into plastic bags?
Smidge204 wrote:What you're basically advocating here, perhaps unintentionally, is a conspiracy that involves the ship's own crew to disable or bypass radiation safety measures, putting themselves and fellow crew members at risk.

Do you actually have credible evidence that the water used on the ship was contaminated?
=Smidge=
I am advocating no such thing and I find it comical at best that you would suggest that. Did you actually read the information I linked? Nobody said anything about disabling or bypassing safety measures - I sure as hell didn't!

This carrier and the other ships in the battle group were downwind and down-current of the reactors. The had to keep moving around to find clear water and clean air, but ultimately had to keep moving toward land because they were there performing a humanitarian mission. The folks on land were moved west and south to keep them out of the hot zones - these crews were in the water off the coast navigating by Geiger counter as well as radar.

If you want to judge, judge what I'm saying and reporting - not what you think I'm saying as they are not the same.

I know for a fact that crews get all available information before entering a mission area. Then they decide how they'll deploy and operate. The collect the dots first. These crews were not given accurate information and thus did not go in expecting a 'hot' area. This is highlighted by this:

http://japanfocus.org/-Roger-Witherspoon/3918
For Quartermaster Enis, the wait for decontamination was a completely unexpected turn of events. The quartermasters had two main responsibilities: navigating the ship, and operating the signal flags attached to the mast, which let others in the fleet know what the flagship was doing. Enis had been ordered to bring down the American flag, which had been flying atop the mast for two weeks, and bring it to the Captain’s quarters.

“I brought it down,” he said, “and folded it respectfully and tucked it under my right arm, next to my body. I carried it inside, put it away, and thought nothing of it.”

After dinner, he was walking past a sensor “and the alarms all went off,” he recalled. “And they began yelling at me not to touch anything or anyone and to go straight to the decontamination area.”

There was a line in the cordoned-off “decon” area with men and women waiting to be checked. But Enis didn’t have to wait – he was already marked and was ushered to the front, where a tableau was playing out under the watchful eyes of the Reagan’s executive officer and senior medical officer. The naked sailor in the center of the room was given a towel to cover himself and left. They called Enis.

“They had told us that there was no radiation,” said Enis. “When they started putting up the stations along the ship to check for radiation they didn’t say why they were there. They checked my boots and nothing happened. Then they checked my hands and the machine goes crazy.
http://japanfocus.org/-Roger-Witherspoon/3918
“We were in Misawa 3 ½ weeks, working every day, flying mission after mission after mission to pick people up, rescue people, ferry supplies and things like that. There were a few nuclear technicians scanning individuals coming back from missions. Many times they would cut off their uniforms.” The decontamination team cut off their uniforms to avoid touching them and further contaminating them.
http://japanfocus.org/-Roger-Witherspoon/3918
Jobs are compartmentalized at sea explained Navy Quartermasters Maurice Enis and Jaime Plym, two of the navigators on the carrier Reagan. Few of those on board knew there were dangerous radioactive plumes blowing in the wind and none knew what ocean currents might be contaminated. They did know there were problems when alarms went off. “We make our own water through desalinization plants on board,” said Plym, a 28-year-old from St. Augustine, Florida. “But it comes from the ocean and the ocean was contaminated. So we had to get rid of all the water on the ship and keep scouring it and testing it till it was clean.

“You have a nuclear power plant inside the ship that uses water for cooling, and they didn’t want to contaminate our reactor with their reactors’ radiation.” But avoiding it was not easy. It meant going far enough out to sea where there were no contaminated currents, washing down the ship and its pipes, and then going back towards shore. “We could actually see the certain parts of the navigation chart where radiation was at, and to navigate through that was nerve wracking,” said Enis. “The general public, like the ship, didn’t really know where it was or what it was and relied on word-of-mouth and rumors. We have more information, but there was no absolute way for us to know how much radiation was out there because we were still being told by the (Japanese) power company that we shouldn’t worry. “We stayed about 80 days, and we would stay as close as two miles offshore and then sail away. It was a cat and mouse game depending on which way the wind was blowing. We kept coming back because it was a matter of helping the people of Japan who needed help. But it would put us in a different dangerous area. After the first scare and we found there was radiation when they (the power company) told us there was none, we went on lockdown and had to carry around the gas masks.”
http://www.stripes.com/congress-wants-a ... f-1.263843
SASEBO NAVAL BASE, Japan — Congress has instructed the Defense Department to launch an inquiry into potential health impacts on Navy first-responders from Japan’s March 2011 earthquake, tsunami and nuclear disaster.

The request, made in the explanatory statement from the House that accompanied the fiscal 2014 budget bill that passed Congress this month, comes as a growing number of sailors and Marines have joined a lawsuit against Tokyo Electric Power Co.
Serious fallout was also apparently found on helicopters coming back from relief missions. One unnamed U.S. government expert is quoted in the Japan Focus article as saying:

At 100 meters away it (the helicopter) was reading 4 sieverts per hour. That is an astronomical number and it told me, what that number means to me, a trained person, is there is no water on the reactor cores and they are just melting down, there is nothing containing the release of radioactivity. It is an unmitigated, unshielded number. (Confidential communication, Sept. 17, 2012).

The transcript then contains discussion of health impacts that could come within a matter of “10 hours. It’s a thyroid issue.”
http://www.longitude361.com/?p=1393

Image

These sailors were in situations that fell between the general public and the exposure rates for the 'Fukushima 50' - they were stationed in radioactive water, washing fallout-laden snow from the ship, and decontaminating helicopters that were ferrying supplies and equipment to the Fukushima site and surrounding areas. These are facts.

I'm not saying they were 'poisoned by eating radioactive lettuce' here...
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AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:25 pm

This is the most credible information you'll get without either a security clearance (most mission information is classified) or access to people's medical records.

This is a transcript of a telephone conversation obtained through a freedom of information act request:
In transcribed telephone conversations between U.S. based federal government officials, nuclear authorities, U.S. embassy officials in Tokyo and military staff in the Pacific Command (PACOM) made available through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), the U.S. government response to the nuclear crisis can be seen in real-time as it played out over the course of the first month of the crisis:
ADMIRAL DONALD: (...) Earlier this evening, as the USS Ronald Reagan was operating off the coast of Japan, we - the ship just arrived. We had given the ship some guidance as far as positioning was concerned to stay clear of the area of the potential plume, basically told her to stay 50 miles outside of the radius of the -- 100 miles -- excuse me -- 50 miles radius outside of the plant and then 100 miles along the plume with a vector of 45 degrees. The ship was adhering to that requirement and detected some activity about two and a half times above normal airborne activity using on-board sensors on the aircraft carriers. So that indicated that they had found the plume and it was probably more significant than what we had originally thought. The second thing that has happened is we have had some helicopters conducting operations from the aircraft carrier and one of the helicopters came back from having stopped on board the Japanese command ship in the area, and people who had been on -- were on the helicopter who had walked on the deck of the ship, were monitored and had elevated counts on their feet, 2500 counts per minute. But I wanted to get you guys on the line and my expert on the line so we can get the data and then the proper people notified.

MR. PONEMAN: Okay, I have a couple of questions. Number one, in terms of the level of radiation that you are picking up, what's the delta between that and any information we have from the Japanese or other sources of what the level of radiation would be, given the venting and so forth that we know has occurred?

MR. MUELLER: So -- this is Mueller -- the sample that was taken and then what we detected, we were 100 nautical miles away and it's -- in our terms it's -- compared to just normal background it's about 30 times what you would detect just on a normal air sample out at sea. And so we thought -- we thought based on what we had heard on the reactors that we wouldn't detect that level even at 25 miles. So it's much greater than what we had thought. We didn't think we would detect anything at 100 miles.

MR.. PONEMAN: You didn't think you'd detect anything at 100 miles. Okay, and then in terms of the regulations and so forth of people operating in these kinds of areas, I forget some you know, acronym for it, PAG (Protective Action Guidelines) or something, how do the levels detected compare with what is permissible?

MR. MUELLER: If it were a member of the general public, it would take -- well, it would take about 10 hours to reach a limit, a PAG limit.

MUELLER: Right. For a member of the public.

PONEMAN: Right. You mean, at the level you detected?

MR. MUELLER: Yes sir. But 10 hours, it's a thyroid dose issue.

MR. PONEMAN: Okay, but the net of all this is that the amount of release that is detected by these two episodes whatever you would call them, is significantly higher than anything you would have expected what you have been reading from all sources?

MR. MUELLER: Yes sir. The number specific number we detected was 2.5 the times 10 to the 88 minus nine microcuries per milliliter, airborne, and that's particulate airborne. It is -- we did not take radioiodide samples so I don't know that value, but this is particulate airborne...

MR. PONEMAN: Tell me again exactly how you picked up these two forms of samples.

MR. MUELLER: We have automatic detectors in the plant that picked up -- picked up the airborne, and all of our continuous monitors alarmed at the same level, at this value. And then we took portable air samples on the flight desk and got the same value.

ADMIRAL DONALD: These are normally running continuous detectors, continuous monitors that run in the engine room all the time, monitoring our equipment.

MR. PONEMAN: These are detectors on the Reagan?

ADMIRAL DONALD: On the Ronald Reagan, correct.

MR. MUELLER: Yes sir.

MR. PONEMAN: On the Ronald Reagan. They are there because you have got equipment there that you know, it could emit stuff and while you were there, you picked up stuff that was ambient which indicated that you actually were in the plume?

MR. MUELLER: That's correct.

MR. PONEMAN: And this was -- this was 30 times higher than what you would have expected?

MR. MUELLER: Yes sir.
http://japanfocus.org/-Kyle-Cleveland/4075
http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_a ... eagan.html
Photographic evidence and first-person testimony confirms that on March 12, 2011 the ship was within two miles of Fukushima Dai'ichi as the reactors there began to melt and explode. In the midst of a snow storm, deck hands were enveloped in a warm cloud that came with a metallic taste.

Sailors testify that the Reagan's 5,500-member crew was told over the ship's intercom to avoid drinking or bathing in desalinized water drawn from a radioactive sea.

The huge carrier quickly ceased its humanitarian efforts and sailed 100 miles out to sea, where newly published internal Navy communications confirm it was still taking serious doses of radioactive fallout.
http://www.internationalpolicydigest.or ... rreported/

Chronology of events - Operation Tomodachi (this has a full day by day count of military members, units, and ships directly involved in relief operations)
http://www.nbr.org/research/activity.as ... yDQ__ldXEk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tomodachi

Or wait for the rest of the testimony to be released from the ongoing lawsuits.
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AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:09 pm

Smidge and Wet - maybe you two fine gentlemen would care to go on record with a position statement? I would very much like to know why you think the US Military first responders were or were not put in harms way and would like to know what if any support they may need in future because of the conditions in which they lived and worked during Operation Tomodachi.

If you're not willing, please communicate that as well.

Thanks in advance.
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AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:24 pm

TOKYO (AP) — As radiation spewed from Japan's nuclear disaster three years ago, the top U.S. atomic energy regulator issued a 50-mile evacuation warning for any Americans in the area, a response some found extreme.

Gregory Jaczko, who stepped down as chairman of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in 2012, still believes he was right, and says the events at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi plant show that nuclear power should be phased out in Japan and worldwide.

"The lesson has to be: This kind of accident is unacceptable to society. And that's not me saying it. That's society saying that," he said in an interview this week in Tokyo, where he is giving lectures and speaking on panels marking the third anniversary of the March 11, 2011 earthquake and tsunami that overwhelmed the Fukushima plant.
Jaczko said he had always been concerned about nuclear safety. But so much unfolded at Fukushima that experts were unprepared for, that it changed his view, and that of the Japanese public, on nuclear power.

Chernobyl and Three Mile Island were major accidents, but for Jackso, Fukushima definitively undermined industry assumptions such as multiple accidents were unlikely or hydrogen leaks would be controlled.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-ex-nu ... -phase-out

Jaczko said it luck the wind blew in a direction that sent much of the radiation out to sea.
Lucky for those on land. Not so much for the folks in the Reagan battle group.
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AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:14 am

Recordings from the USS Ronald Reagan aircraft carrier. This covers one of the times the carrier group sailed out of contaminated waters in order to flush the pipes and refill the ship's water supply.

I just googled it and I am shocked. We knew they were covering some stuff up but I didn't realize it was that bad to where people on my boat are getting sick already. It was in our drinking water and everything. I have more videos from this time I am going to be posting.
General Quarters: High alert/attack imminent/post attack damage assessment
MOPP: Mission oriented protection posture. Answers the question: How much nuclear/biological/chemical gear should be worn to counter the existing threat?
Circle William - This occurres when a ship closes air ventilation ducts and circulation systems in defense against a chemical, biological, or nuclear warfare attack. It seals the interior of the ship against outside elements.








Image

This makes it even harder for the press and/or whistle blowers to alert the public:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... owers.html
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/11/ ... alism.html
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/01/ ... -eyes.html

edit...added definition for 'circle william'
Last edited by AndyH on Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:23 pm

WetEV wrote:Your skills as an information warrior are very impressive, Andy. But spreading FUD isn't useful for humanity's future. You should know this, but perhaps we have different perspectives.
Good to see you using your new phrase in a sentence. With more time and experience maybe you'll learn to grok it more fully. In the mean time, let me help you a bit since you've crossed the line by labeling me with the fruits of your incomplete understanding.

For the record, I do not agree with and will not use information warfare tactics by/for business or against the general public. In addition, I will not be part of using these tactics in a military context unless it's used to save lives (and it is/can be). And finally, if I DID plan to use IO techniques in this forum, the last thing that would make sense would be to educate the group on the process first.

You then imply that you are the better arbiter of information useful for humanity's future. Let's check the record from this forum. You continually push continued use and expansion of nuclear power, while continuing to proclaim that renewables cannot supply 100% of our energy needs and that if we try we'll find that it's way too expensive (though you won't respond when asked 'compared to what'?). At this point, after being part of this community from nearly the beginning, I don't consider you to be a reliable source for energy information. I have and will continue to thank you for your efforts to raise awareness of the problem of atmospheric CO2, however.
WetEV wrote:Human's have a list of lot of different ways in which we die. Radiation is far down the list, and would continue be so even at much higher levels of radiation.
Here you ignore that nobody is talking about LD100. We're not even talking about LD50 or LD10 - we're talking about people becoming sick after extended exposure to radiation 100-300 times higher than ambient and through ingesting contaminated water. In other words, simple fact.

Your attempt to make this about 'death' is a cheap and failed attempt to discredit me, the info I'm reporting, and thus the experience of the US Navy personnel that were actively involved in the Fukushima disaster response. Fail.
WetEV wrote:I don't expect a realistic answer, and expect you will continue spreading the FUD, and never bother to consider the cost of doing so. After all, you are fighting an "information war". By disagreeing with you I have become the "enemy".
You again call me a liar, and a sociopath at that - then attempt to raise yourself by calling yourself the enemy. That's too funny. I can assure you that I do not consider fact to be FUD, I'm deeply against FUD and work instead to provide clarity when I can. I can also assure you that I don't consider you to be elevated to the position of 'enemy' in any way.

Meanwhile, back on topic. Here is first-person testimony from two members of the USS Reagan crew - two folks who's duties required them to be out on deck daily.



To recap: They were sent to support Japan prior to the Fukushima meltdown. They continued to operate for weeks after the meltdown, and the ship didn't go on lock-down (and radiation detectors weren't deployed) for nearly a month). They were not given iodine though senior staff and pilots were. They were asked to keep information from the crew that first month. It wasn't until later that the Captain started making ship-wide announcements.

The helicopters used to ferry supplies to the mainland were so radioactive that engines were replaced at sea because they didn't know if they were safe to operate, and parts removed from the helicopters could not be decontaminated and were sequestered as hazardous waste.

I don't know and have never suggested that anyone in the Reagan task force died. What we do know, however, is that at least one sailor had a bone marrow transplant to treat leukemia, another has a brain tumor, another is losing control of one side of his body. In total, about 100 sailors that worked outside as part of the response force are sick. Yes, the majority of sailors - most of which stayed below and never normally go 'topside' unless they leave the ship - received very low does near that received while flying or on a beach in the sun. Others were exposed to higher than normal levels of radiation for the entire ~80 days they spent off the coast of Japan.

edit...another first-person account:
He explained that the officers and crew of the USS Ronald Reagan and other vessels believed that it was safe to operate within the waters adjacent to the Fukushima power plant. Because TEPCO assured the Navy that it was safe to be in the area, the Navy did not do its own testing. Nathan Piekutoski, who served aboard the USS Essex told Fox News that he and his fellow sailors trusted the TEPCO officials. He said, “They did say it was safe at the time. We had to take their word for it.” After the incident, Piekutowski developed leukemia, which is currently in remission. He has been told that he may need to undergo a bone marrow transplant.
TEPCO officials did not respond to requests from Fox New for comment. However, a recent admission before members of the Japanese press on December 12, former Prime Minister Naoto Jan said the first meltdown occurred five hours after the tsunami, not the next day as reported at the time. Bonner claims that the statement means that the Japanese government was aware of the radiation leakage. He said, “They knew there was an active meltdown and they deliberately hid it from the public as well as the Navy. Those sailors went in there totally unaware and they were contaminated as a result.”
http://www.examiner.com/article/uss-ron ... -illnesses
/edit
NRC_fukushima.jpg
SRC: http://www.scribd.com/doc/84594396/Esti ... -2011-0120

edits...added quotes, fixed link
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Last edited by AndyH on Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:34 pm

Here's a series of Powerpoint slides from the USAF Radiation Assessment Team post-Operation Tomodachi briefings.

http://www.nationalrep.org/2012Presenta ... e-Hale.pdf

The AFRAT is the team the USAF deploys to respond to 'incidents' and 'accidents' - from reactor malfunctions to nukes falling off airplanes or aircraft crashes (Broken Arrow).

These briefings show routine use of protective clothing, dosimeters, testing and measurement to assess the environment. They also discuss the use of potassium iodide, evacuations and sheltering, and internal human monitoring. Other sections address communications with the Japanese self defense forces, the Japanese government, and TEPCO officials.

This report provides info on dose rates for the command center/distinguished visitor area south of the reactor complex. This was reported to have been one of the most heavily monitored areas, yet there are too many gaps and sections of missing and/or unreliable data.
https://registry.csd.disa.mil/registryW ... 12-045.pdf


Contrast that with the environment on the USS Reagan. No protective gear used the first month, no public announcement that they were in a radioactive environment, personnel working outside not provided potassium iodide, delays deploying radiation monitoring equipment outside the ships, and apparently no monitoring of even the members of the crew known to have had significant exposure (blood, urine).

People on land were moved to safety, while the folks aboard ship continued to operate, often in or traversing the downwind plume from the damaged reactor and/or in the contaminated waters.

When we trained in Europe, everything was a cold war scenario where step one was to grab protective gear and get to shelter. Once in shelter, we set up airlocks and taped ourselves in. When the post-strike team suited up and went outside to survey, we were in full MOPP4 gear (full NBC suits, rubber over boots, two layers of gloves, gas mask and hood. We were taped into the suits as well - all seams were taped over. We wore dosimeters and carried Geiger counters as well as chemical detection kits and decontamination kits. We had potassium iodide tablets and atropine/2-pam chloride chemical defense auto-injectors. We did the work in our sectors measuring fallout, performing chemical testing, and identifying/cordoning off unexploded ordnance. On the way back inside, we went through a full decontamination line where each layer of clothing was peeled in sections of the airlock tunnel until we were given clean uniforms before re-entering the shelter.

I'm shocked at the response - I really don't know what to make of this. So far, it looks like the Navy was completely unprepared for the environment they entered.

edit...just in time, I guess. The Stars and Stripes is the unofficial newspaper of the US military.
TOKYO — In the first few days of Japan’s nuclear crisis this spring, the U.S. military wasn't fully prepared to deal with possible radiation exposure to its troops and equipment, the top U.S. general in Japan said Wednesday.
“As the (Fukushima Dai-ichi) reactors exploded and they sent some of that radiation out, we had the issue with it being detected off shore by the Navy,” he said. “We had to start dealing with the kind of environment that the U.S. military had not really worked in, so we didn't have the strictest guidelines on what kind of risk we would take in terms of radiation exposure for our (service) members.”
http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/ear ... s-1.150236

Some additional info on shipboard water production. The water could have been contaminated with many other things in addition to radioactive isotopes and some of those might be responsible for many of the illnesses. I haven't yet found any Navy documents that show potable water is tested for contaminants beyond salt levels and bacteriological quality.
http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/D ... P50106.pdf

http://www.professionalmariner.com/Dece ... afe-water/
Recently, water quality on commercial vessels was in the news when it was reported that Mobile Offshore Drilling Units (MODUs) working near the site of the Deepwater Horizon disaster were using seawater tainted with crude oil and the dispersant Corexit in their shipboard watermakers. Crude oil contains several dangerous carcinogenic components such as benzene and toluene, while Corexit has a large percentage of petroleum distillates, propylene glycol and sulfonic acid. According to the material data safety sheets (MSDS) for both crude oil and Corexit, neither is supposed to be taken internally. Yet reports from the Gulf pointed out that no one was testing for their presence in the drinking water on board MODUs making water in the contaminated Gulf of Mexico oil spill area.
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive (lease ended Feb, 2018)
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

AndyH
Posts: 6388
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:10 pm

The situation in Japan is evolving, and it’s clear that in an event like the March 11 disaster, primary concerns will always be the immediate safety and recovery for everyone affected. But even during initial rescue efforts, responders need to be protected against chemical hazards, and when cleanup and rebuilding efforts begin, the potential health hazards posed by chemical contaminants become increasingly important. Judging from the extreme difficulty of obtaining concrete, detailed information about potential chemical hazards following the Japan disaster, this appears to be an aspect of emergency preparedness that, despite well-established formal disaster-response plans, remains inadequately addressed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222972/

Response training tool: Controlling Hazards During the 2011 Earthquake and Tsunami Response
http://tools.niehs.nih.gov/wetp/2/NIEHS ... 11_508.pdf

It's looking more like the ocean water was a mixed brew of components that neither reverse osmosis nor distillation can remove. Since most chemicals in daily use have not been tested on humans singly, and likely none have been tested in combination or with a radioactive boost, the Navy first responders likely won't know exactly what's making them sick.
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive (lease ended Feb, 2018)
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

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