EGolf or LEAF

Hi folks,

I'm eager to get my first EV and, being in CT, have narrowed it down to the eGolf and the LEAF.

We are looking for a basic, reliable and safe commuter/around-town car. We have a 2013 Ford Fusion, for our family sedan, but are looking for a second car with sufficient interior room to be comfortable for short/intermediate trips for our family of 3 (w/ car seat). I test drove the eGolf last week and will be going with my wife on Friday to test drive the eGolf again and a LEAF. I'm looking at the SV options for the 6.6 OBC. With free Level 1 & 2 charging at work (15 mile commute), i feel somewhat justified in a higher EV price.

I'd love to hear why any recent purchasers went for the LEAF instead of the eGolf. I hear the eGolf is a bit more of a "driver's car", but that's not exactly my top priority.

I spoke with someone from VW corporate and they said they are now accepting 2016 eGolf orders and that local dealers will have pricing info. Folks at Nissan were not at all forthcoming about timeline for the 2016 LEAF.

We are looking to lease either way we go, as the technology is changing so fast. If anyone from CT is on the forum, please let me know what your lease terms were. I want to comparison shop and get the best deal i can, given how much of a stretch this is for us (no one in my immediate family has ever had a new car, or leased a car).

The generic quote i got from Montessi VW in North Haven for the eGolf LE was $0 down, $229/month for 10K miles per year, for 36 months plus tax, etc. That puts the base cost at $8,244. How does that compare to the CT LEAF leasees?

Thanks for the help,

Aspiring EV Leasee

I own(ed) a Leaf and a coworker just opted for the eGolf. I think they are both very nice cars, with good but different rides. The interior/exterior styling is obviously very different, so its all up to taste. I'd say the Leaf is a more commuter car ride, and the eGolf a little more sporty.

Having said that the eGolf has a couple of things that you should consider: they put the charger port in the back of the vehicle (instead of front), which sometimes makes it harder to reach with charging cables unless you back up. And minor niggle is that the eGolf always LOCKS the charge cable in until the car is unlocked, even when done charging. This is a problem if you are in public charging and/or at work as others can't use the charger after you are done unless you leave car unlocked (Leaf has three selectable settings for always lock, never lock and lock only while charging).

the 2016 LEAF is a bit of a sensitive topic, because it appears to include a real range boost. If you hold off buying until the 2016 LEAF is announced 3 things will happen.

2015 LEAFs will get cheaper
2015/2016 eGolfs will get much cheaper (they won't sell otherwise)
2016 increased range LEAFs will be available


if convenient, I would suggest adding the Kia Soul EV to the look at list.

ydnas7 said:

the 2016 LEAF is a bit of a sensitive topic, because it appears to include a real range boost. If you hold off buying until the 2016 LEAF is announced 3 things will happen.

2015 LEAFs will get cheaper
2015/2016 eGolfs will get much cheaper (they won't sell otherwise)
2016 increased range LEAFs will be available


if convenient, I would suggest adding the Kia Soul EV to the look at list.

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As much as I'm a VW fan, I would +1 on adding the Kia Soul EV if it's available out your way; the market keeps changing so you may even have more options if you're willing to wait a bit. They had the latest Soul out at the Chicago Auto Show along with their EV version and loved the room and a bit higher seat height than typical hatchbacks.

The biggest downside to the eGolf, for me at least, is the lack of compatible infrastructure in the area. The following two maps should make the situation crystal clear. The first is the CHAdeMO map for the tri-state area, the second is the CCS Combo map for the same area. CHAdeMO is used by the Leaf, Kia Soul EV, Mitsubishi i-MiEV and the Tesla Model S (with an adapter). The CCS stations are used by the BMW i3, Chevy Spark EV, and the eGolf. It will also probably be used on future model years of the Mercedes B-Class EV, the Ford Focus EV, etc etc etc.





CHAdeMO wins right now, hands down. There is a charging station company called NRG EVgo that is installing CHAdeMO stations throughout the area (including one that just popped up recently at Danbury Fair Mall). In California, EVgo is required to install stations that are dual standard (both CHAdeMO and CCS) due to a legal settlement their parent company made with the state of CA. In the rest of the markets they operate in, including ours, they are installing CHAdeMO only. They may ultimately go back and install dual standard stations when there is enough demand, but right now, CHAdeMO equipped cars greatly outnumber CCS cars, so there just isn't much incentive to install the stations.

If being able to Quick Charge isn't important to you, then this is a moot point. When I got my Leaf in Jan 2012, the nearest CHAdeMO station was in Toronto! I thought I'd never see a CHAdeMO station, and then they started slowly appearing. I didn't think I'd get any use out of them, but the peace of mind they provide is worth a lot. Plus, the growing infrastructure allowed me to take my Leaf on a roadtrip to Washington DC last summer. It's something to seriously consider.

As noted, the lack of CHAdeMO compatibility is something to consider. That said, from your post it doesn't sound like range and quick charge would be needed especially since this isn't going to be the only car in the family. But it is nice to have it available should you need it.

I really like both. As noted, the VW is more of a driver's car while the Leaf is more utility oriented. If your third involves a car seat, I would recommend lugging a car seat along for the test drives and seeing how well each accommodates it. My guess would be the Leaf would work better.

The impending 2016 Leaf with the greater range should mean that the 2015 Leaf and the 15/16 eGolf will soon be at better prices. But if you keep short term, expect sharp depreciation. Actually, you should expect that on any of the EVs as the field is changing so fast.

Read the whole thread on this forum regarding the eGolf. There is an excellent run down of the pros and cons for each by a member who has had both.

For me, it's a no brainer. NO VW! Their reliability record is generally poor and VW is not known for electrical system prowess (reliability), so no to a 1st year ELECTRIC vehicle from such a company.

Leaf's reliability record in Consumer Reports has been pretty decent, overall.

If VW had Toyota/Honda levels of overall reliability, sure, I'd be open to it.

DarthPuppy said:

There is an excellent run down of the pros and cons for each by a member who has had both.

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I am the one being mentioned here. I still have both cars at the moment. Here is my comparison (scroll down to July 27th 2015): http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14166&p=431582#p431582

Also see my addendum further down.

I have only put 200 or so miles on the car total since I got it a few weeks ago. Since those posts, I did do a 91 mile run with the car in mixed freeway and local street drive. I am getting a bit over 10% better "fuel" economy with the eGolf which also uses Ecopia EP422 tires, but the newer "plus" version which I ended up putting on my Leaf as well.

Reliability is a concern as cwerdna pointed out, and a few eGolfs have had a problem in which the cars suddenly shut down for no apparent reason. However I have been impressed with VW's first mass-market EV and as long as it doesn't become a reliability nightmare, I don't regret getting one.

BTW some dealers in SoCal have been offering better lease deals than the official VW ones on the 2015's. Basically they are offering SEL's for $199/month and while it only has a 7500 mile/year allotment, even with the overmileage penalty you're net cost is only slightly more than VWoA's official lease deal for the LE.

We do not own an eGolf, but we do own a 2015 Golf TSI. Very impressed with the fit / finish / interior materials / quiet / etc.
Have owned it one year with 0 issues. Its a drivers car, not just transportation like the Leaf. I'm thinking the eGolf will bridge the divide of a drivers car and EV in a cost effective package vs the Tesla.

Thanks everyone, super helpful. I'm not too concerned about QC as I'll be eating up a good chunk of a 10k mile lease with my daily commute. I won't have all that much, 3k or so, left over for non-commuter use.

I'm definitely bringing the car seat, mostly because my daughter is coming on the test drive. I'll post the results of that soon. I was surprised by the leg room of the eGolf, just a little less than my Fusion.

Electrical reliability is definitely something to factor in. I'm hoping the LEAF is as torque-y as the eGolf. I have a simple commute, but still like to get up and go now and again.

Thanks again everyone!
Jeff

Hi Jeff, welcome. I'm sure you know, but for the left coasters, we can't get the Soul EV here yet. Might have went for it myself.

Either car will do you, and you're shopping at a great time, prices will drop soon as noted above .

But, only 10k mileage? Even with your commute, you'll want 12k at least. You'll find the Ford gathering dust once you have it.

jmmurphy26 said:

I'm hoping the LEAF is as torque-y as the eGolf.

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Yes the Leaf is just as torquey as the eGolf, perhaps a bit more so (210 lb-ft vs. 199-lb ft for the eGolf). Both feel equally quick off the line IMHO in my informal, non-instrumented experience. When you test drive the Leaf make sure you try out both the regular and the Eco modes, as the latter does make the car accelerate noticeably slower unless you have the pedal floored.

I also agree with the above that if 10k/year barely covers your commuting needs, you may want to negotiate for 12k/year. Most Nissan Leaf lease specials assume this anyway, unlike with the eGolf which is typically 10k or even 7.5k/year. You WILL find excuses to drive this car over your ICEV.

So Nissan was completely unprepared for us. I set up an appt. on Tuesday for a Friday test drive. We get there and they don't know we are coming, get passed around the sales floor, finally find the "LEAF guy". He isn't the most knowledgeable guy I've ever talked to, but pleasant enough. He takes us to the one LEAF they have, it's an S, sitting in the middle of the showroom, boxed in by a half dozen cars.

I asked him how he plans on us taking on a test drive and he starts scrambling. In the end we cancel the test drive and instead just talk $. It takes 25mins to get a lease quote. He comes back with this offer:

LEAF S w/ Charging Package
$1,000 down
36 months
12k miles per year
$278/ month

This is compared to the VW meeting 10 minutes later where the guy was knowledgeable, friendly and straightforward. Not to mention prepared for us. His offer is the national one customized for the CT rebate:

VW eGolf LE
$1000 down
36 months
10k miles per year
$205/ month

I was flabbergasted to find these quotes so far apart, esp in VW's favor. Going to shop around see what other offers are available in the area.

RonDawg said:

Reliability is a concern as cwerdna pointed out, and a few eGolfs have had a problem in which the cars suddenly shut down for no apparent reason. However I have been impressed with VW's first mass-market EV and as long as it doesn't become a reliability nightmare, I don't regret getting one.

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If those shutdowns are happening while in motion, please encourage them to file safety complains w/NHTSA at http://www.safercar.gov/, after attempt(s) are made to repair it.

One guy at my work (I don't know him well) had his eGolf go into the shop twice (well, second time to was fix a problem that apparently wasn't corrected the first time properly). His eGolf wouldn't charge properly anymore and had to be towed since I don't think he could make it home w/the charge level he had.

I kept asking him if he got his car back. The answer no a bunch of times, and later, it's back in the shop.

When he got it back, I asked him what they fixed/changed or what was the problem and his response was essentially "I dunno. Batteries? ... I don't care." :roll: I told him I am interested. Maybe he'll bring in the receipts someday.

Jeff, not all Nissan dealers are that bad. Some of them are much worse.

Is VW only offering 10k leases?

DNAinaGoodWay said:

Is VW only offering 10k leases?

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The official VW lease specials are 10k/year. Many of the lease specials offered by individual dealers only have 7500 miles/year.

RonDawg said:

DNAinaGoodWay said:

Is VW only offering 10k leases?

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The official VW lease specials are 10k/year. Many of the lease specials offered by individual dealers only have 7500 miles/year.

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So to compare apples to apples in his quotes above, at 12k the eGolf would be like $220/month?

cwerdna said:

RonDawg said:

Reliability is a concern as cwerdna pointed out, and a few eGolfs have had a problem in which the cars suddenly shut down for no apparent reason.

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If those shutdowns are happening while in motion, please encourage them to file safety complains w/NHTSA at http://www.safercar.gov/, after attempt(s) are made to repair it.

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Yes there is a specific thread for that over at MyVWeGolf: http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=422

Have you considered buying? The 2013+ models are basically the same as the 2015, especially since you're in a mild climate. They go for $9 - $12k around here (I'm in MA).

AndyGT02 said:

Have you considered buying? The 2013+ models are basically the same as the 2015, especially since you're in a mild climate. They go for $9 - $12k around here (I'm in MA).

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Yeah, I posted about my purchase of a '13 SV w/premium package lease return here in CA for $9,325 + tax and license (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=430825#p430825). Build month was 5/2013.

There was a lower mileage one I passed on (only ~12K miles) for $10.5K + tax and license, also built 5/2013.

'13 Leafs didn't go on sale until sometime in early 2013 (don't remember the first month/date). I was at the San Jose visit of http://sfbayleafs.org/past-events/2013/01/2013-leaf-bay-area-reveal/ (also covered at http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/nissan-gives-leaf-owners-a-preview-of-the-2013-model/ in Jan 2013) when the '13s were definitely not on sale yet and we were still waiting for details.