rogersleaf
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:50 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Mar 2019
Leaf Number: 307726
Location: Kent, Ohio

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:55 pm

valem wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:06 pm
I've been driving in Central FL, as was the previous owner that got the battery replaced.

I will post every single charge and discharge cycle; yes, I am noting down all Leafspy data and dash data every time I charge...
Large amounts of data isn't needed. You answered the main question... The car is native to hot & sunny central Florida. It's no secret that heat destroys a LEAF battery, and it doesn't make much difference if driving vs. parked in the heat. Last time I was through the area, traffic was running at least 75 mph, and at times was getting passed by everything when running 80. That heat and workload was fine for my Ridgeline, but would never want to subject a LEAF battery to those conditions. Would expect consistently hot battery temps without much opportunity to cool off and not the slightest bit surprised your battery is loosing capacity quickly. Remember once having an air-cooled VW Bug, those machines also didn't do so well in the heat especially when run hard. Suggest paying a little more for an EV with liquid cooling.
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver - returned 1/2017 at end of lease.
2019 SL - White - w/Tech Package

Evoforce
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:10 am

Oilpan4 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:14 am
I definitely don't want a used $20,000 car with limited range that requires hours of dwell time between long drives.
I'm good with my leaf that was $7,200 at 7 years old
And it won't burn my house down.
I'm not sure what you are referring to but I just got a recall on both of my Leafs that are battery related to possible corrosion/poor grounding and maybe fire or shock? Did you get your notice to repair yet? I suppose a Leaf with an uncooled battery might be more susceptible to catching on fire but I haven't seen where this is a problem with any of the electric cars currently on the market. I would worry more about burning your house down by possibly incorrectly hooking up your car to power your (water well) or home appliances. Not that it can't be done, but not efficiently with the Leaf.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

cwerdna
Posts: 9582
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:38 am

Evoforce wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:10 am
Oilpan4 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:14 am
I definitely don't want a used $20,000 car with limited range that requires hours of dwell time between long drives.
I'm good with my leaf that was $7,200 at 7 years old
And it won't burn my house down.
I'm not sure what you are referring to but I just got a recall on both of my Leafs that are battery related to possible corrosion/poor grounding and maybe fire or shock? Did you get your notice to repair yet? I suppose a Leaf with an uncooled battery might be more susceptible to catching on fire but I haven't seen where this is a problem with any of the electric cars currently on the market. I would worry more about burning your house down by possibly incorrectly hooking up your car to power your (water well) or home appliances. Not that it can't be done, but not efficiently with the Leaf.
I won't go as far as what Oilpan4 is saying but perhaps you've missed some of the incidents of various Tesla fires and the assertion that Tesla uses an unstable chemistry: viewtopic.php?p=336543#p336543. The below isn't a complete list. Most of these I knew of off the top of my head because I'd read of them or seen the videos before.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/16/tes ... re-update/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-elec ... ack-tweet/ - skip to the tweet
https://www.thedrive.com/news/27823/ano ... age-report
https://abc7news.com/watch-live-tesla-c ... s/4925030/ - this actually happened near my work
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/06/ ... crash.html
https://insideevs.com/news/341410/tesla ... nia-video/
https://insideevs.com/news/322898/stole ... o-updates/ - near the beginning of the video you can see the fire and the cells going off like firecrackers into the air
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/brow ... story.html mentions a few other incidents
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/tesla ... d=20462128 was from years ago.

Leaf, being the world's best selling EV (for now) hasn't had any HV battery fires that I'm aware of, at least w/o any unauthorized modifications to the HV pack and HV system.

Supposedly this is what happens w/a Leaf cell if you try setting it on fire or poking it w/a screwdriver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz37WycW-7E.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 720
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:18 am

Trying to power the house with a leaf using its 12v power is stupid.
I have generators to power the whole house.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

gbrance
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:21 am
Delivery Date: 31 Dec 2015

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:55 am

valem wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:22 pm
I haven't found a newer post with a similar title so I am resurrecting this one...
This question (which is beyond me) has been bugging my mind, and I have to ask ...

Why oh why on this flat ass Earth, would anyone (in their right ass mind) buy a (top of the line) Leaf SL rather than a baseline T Model 3.

Really... why? I must now.
The wife and I recently went through this process.

We had a 2015 Nissan Leaf SV and we were looking for a new EV. The 2015 Leaf was our first EV and we were ready for a upgrade. We have two cars so were were not looking for the Leaf to become a primary car for us. We live in Southern California and we have a relatively mild climate. Our 2015 Leaf still have 12 bars and had about 7% degradation after 3+ years of daily charging.

Previously we had purchased the 2015 Leaf and I wanted to Lease this time. For our next EV purchase I wanted to Lease because of the rapid change in technology currently for EV's because they are so new.

For the Model 3.
We found the car extremely low to the ground and difficult for either one of us to get out.
The seats we also found to be uncomfortable.
My wife also didn't like how "techy" the Model 3 was (her words not mine).
Tesla has a lot of chaos going on. I got two Tesla PW2's installed over a year ago. One of the batteries went bad less than a week after the install. Trying to get the battery replaced under warranty took over 3-months and basically Tesla's customer service sucked. At the time I told myself why would I buy a $50k car from a company that cannot even handle the support on a $15k battery installation?

We looked at the new Leaf's and wound up signing a 3-year Lease on a SV Plus at the end of June.
The Zero-Gravity seats in the new Leaf were extremely comfortable. It was easy for us to get in-out of the car.
So far we have been very happy. If we do suffer bad battery degradation I can simply turn in the car at the end of the 3-year lease and walk away. When the Tesla Model Y comes out we will be looking at it. It looks have a higher seating position and hopefully more comfortable seats.

lorenfb
Posts: 2240
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:17 pm

gbrance wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:55 am
Tesla has a lot of chaos going on. I got two Tesla PW2's installed over a year ago. One of the batteries went bad less than a week after the install. Trying to get the battery replaced under warranty took over 3-months and basically Tesla's customer service sucked. At the time I told myself why would I buy a $50k car from a company that cannot even handle the support on a $15k battery installation?
Sad to hear your bad experience with Tesla.
gbrance wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:55 am
When the Tesla Model Y comes out we will be looking at it. It looks have a higher seating position and hopefully more comfortable seats.
Interesting how quickly some forget.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 842
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:14 pm

It was the best seller again last month in Norway.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs. ... orway/amp/
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

valem
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:24 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 405151

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:37 pm

rogersleaf wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:55 pm

Large amounts of data isn't needed. You answered the main question... The car is native to hot & sunny central Florida. It's no secret that heat destroys a LEAF battery, and it doesn't make much difference if driving vs. parked in the heat. Last time I was through the area, traffic was running at least 75 mph, and at times was getting passed by everything when running 80. That heat and workload was fine for my Ridgeline, but would never want to subject a LEAF battery to those conditions. Would expect consistently hot battery temps without much opportunity to cool off and not the slightest bit surprised your battery is loosing capacity quickly. Remember once having an air-cooled VW Bug, those machines also didn't do so well in the heat especially when run hard. Suggest paying a little more for an EV with liquid cooling.
In my data I also keep track of highest cell temp. and even when really warm out it's in the mid 80s. Battery has been on average in the mid 70s betwen November and April, and in mid 80s betwen may and October. Few sporadic peaks in the high 90s due to DC charging.
I avoid highways, avoid driving in the hot times of day and will go out of my way to park in the shade.
Because I rarely drive during the hot times, I also rarely use the A/C. That is correct, in central FL, in the summer, I very rarely use the AC... I suffer to maximize range. Also I avoid highways to maximize range, and when I go on the highways I set cruise to speed limit up to 65. Everyone passes me, but besides working the battery hard, if I go above 65, the Leaf won't go very far.
So I mostly do city driving when it's not hot out, without AC.
I drive very little 5 to 6k mi /year.
I can count on my fingers the charges to 100%, I usually charge with home L2 from 30% to 60% at most.
Extremely shallow charge cycles, and even with temps in the 60s of the FL winter I was experiencing an SOH drop of about 1%/1000.

Hot or cold weather, this car is losing 1% SOH per 1000 miles.
Which is consistent with the first battery... the original battery was replaced at 29k miles (previous owner)
I don't know what the SOH was, but it has to drop at least 4 bars to be replaced, which is about a 34% loss correct? 15% first bar and 6.25% the other 3?

I bought it with 35800mi, 6k miles later and SOH when I bought it was 94%. Dead spot on with 1% per 1000mi!
I now have 41616, about 12k miles after replacement, lo and behold SOH is 88.74, down 11.26% ... incredibly accurate!
So I drove 5800mi and SOH dropped from 94.08 to 88.74 or 1% every 1089mi to be exact.

Just like clockwork
2013 Silver SL 35,800 mi
Tinted windows.
Battery replaced 05/15/17 @ 29,677 mi

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 842
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:39 pm

That’s crazy, especially across 2 different batteries.

With our 2013 we lost our first bar at 5 years to the week (almost to the day) and was down about 20ish percent when we traded it in for a 2019. We usually only had 80-84 miles on the GOM vs 100 or so in the first year. While the range decrease was steady, it was within my expectations for the car.

After watching the screaming with the last Tesla update, the 20% doesn’t even that out of line with those owners’ experience for similarly aged cars.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

Jerryr
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 8:18 am
Delivery Date: 12 May 2019
Leaf Number: 310009
Location: Bradenton, Florida

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:54 am

valem wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:37 pm
rogersleaf wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:55 pm

Large amounts of data isn't needed. You answered the main question... The car is native to hot & sunny central Florida. It's no secret that heat destroys a LEAF battery, and it doesn't make much difference if driving vs. parked in the heat. Last time I was through the area, traffic was running at least 75 mph, and at times was getting passed by everything when running 80. That heat and workload was fine for my Ridgeline, but would never want to subject a LEAF battery to those conditions. Would expect consistently hot battery temps without much opportunity to cool off and not the slightest bit surprised your battery is loosing capacity quickly. Remember once having an air-cooled VW Bug, those machines also didn't do so well in the heat especially when run hard. Suggest paying a little more for an EV with liquid cooling.
In my data I also keep track of highest cell temp. and even when really warm out it's in the mid 80s. Battery has been on average in the mid 70s betwen November and April, and in mid 80s betwen may and October. Few sporadic peaks in the high 90s due to DC charging.
I avoid highways, avoid driving in the hot times of day and will go out of my way to park in the shade.
Because I rarely drive during the hot times, I also rarely use the A/C. That is correct, in central FL, in the summer, I very rarely use the AC... I suffer to maximize range. Also I avoid highways to maximize range, and when I go on the highways I set cruise to speed limit up to 65. Everyone passes me, but besides working the battery hard, if I go above 65, the Leaf won't go very far.
So I mostly do city driving when it's not hot out, without AC.
I drive very little 5 to 6k mi /year.
I can count on my fingers the charges to 100%, I usually charge with home L2 from 30% to 60% at most.
Extremely shallow charge cycles, and even with temps in the 60s of the FL winter I was experiencing an SOH drop of about 1%/1000.

Hot or cold weather, this car is losing 1% SOH per 1000 miles.
Which is consistent with the first battery... the original battery was replaced at 29k miles (previous owner)
I don't know what the SOH was, but it has to drop at least 4 bars to be replaced, which is about a 34% loss correct? 15% first bar and 6.25% the other 3?

I bought it with 35800mi, 6k miles later and SOH when I bought it was 94%. Dead spot on with 1% per 1000mi!
I now have 41616, about 12k miles after replacement, lo and behold SOH is 88.74, down 11.26% ... incredibly accurate!
So I drove 5800mi and SOH dropped from 94.08 to 88.74 or 1% every 1089mi to be exact.

Just like clockwork
Valem,

Your 1%l loss/1000 miles in Florida when driving 6000 miles/yr works out to 0.5%/month. I have found that about 0.4%-0.5%/month loss no matter how many miles I drive here in Florida.

With my 2015, my 2018 and now my 2019 Plus I was loosing 0.5%/month no matter how many miles I drove. In fact when I bought my 2015 it only has 200 miles on it but it sat on dealer lot for 11 months. It had 94% SOH when I bought it.
2019 SL Plus 5/19- current
2018 SV w/tech and All Weather pkg 5/18-4/19 (traded)
2015 SL 4/15-5/18 (traded)
2019 Ford F-350 Lariat Ultimate CCSB SRW Diesel
2015 Lexus RX450h
2017 Grand Design RV 337RLS 5th wheel

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”