Heated / cooled garage: what temperature?

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tn77

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I want to preserve my electric car batteries (2011 Nissan Leaf with brand new 12-bar battery, future Tesla Model 3) with a climate-controlled garage. I got a mini-split unit installed and insulation added.

My goal isn't to make the garage a livable temperature -- 65-75 degrees -- but just to make it "not too cold" and then "not too hot" in the summer. I've been keeping the temperature around 55 in the winter. I was thinking I'd keep it around 80 in the summer.

What are your thoughts? I'm sure what I'm doing is better than no climate control at all, but do you recommend a different temperature for storing/charging the car?
 
I may have others that disagree with me, but I do not feel you need to even worry about this issue. Some people seem to act as if the Leaf (automobile..... not infant baby) needs to have its battery pampered. This is like a person that doesn't want to wear out the soles of their shoes and always walks heel-to-toe to not scrape them... Do not buy it!! I would not leave the car stored in a garage that reaches high temperatures in the summer, but other than that, just drive the car. I leave mine outside all the time, and it is fine.

What kills the battery is driving it until a low level of charge, storing the car at high levels of charge, and the passage of time.... Use the car as much as you can to get the most use of your battery before it deteriorates from time...
 
Yes, that's good advice. I mostly wanted the conditioned garage so it wouldn't get so hot in the summer. Cold was a small consideration, but not the primary one. (I got the mini-split after the summer so I won't use the air conditioning for another few months.)
 
Do a little experimenting, starting with 78F in Summer (don't worry about Winter). You want the temp to stay no higher than 5 bars. A small fan blowing into the car's cooling intake or rear diffuser should also help keep it cool in the garage.
 
If the "tn" in the OP's username means "Tennessee" I would not worry about this. It may be more of an issue if he/she lived in Phoenix or Vegas. And anybody who lives in such a locale would be better off with an EV that has liquid battery cooling (meaning, not a Leaf or eGolf).

I agree with powersurge, sometimes the recommendations here go a bit overboard. Whatever ecological benefit you may get from driving an EV might be overwhelmed by the extra coal-fired electricity you might have to use just to keep it cool in the garage.
 
powersurge said:
I may have others that disagree with me, but I do not feel you need to even worry about this issue.

...

What kills the battery is driving it until a low level of charge, storing the car at high levels of charge, and the passage of time.... Use the car as much as you can to get the most use of your battery before it deteriorates from time...
Click to expand...

For sure there will be those that disagree with you. You can add me to that number.

I live in Dallas, Texas. I purchased a 9-bar used 2011 leaf in December 2015, became an 8 bar in Feb 2016, new lizard battery installed March 2016. I charge to 80% with few exceptions, rarely deeply discharge, and park in covered ventilated garages at both home and work. I manage charging to the coolest time of the evening. Observed pack temps throughout summer rarely exceeded 100F. That battery is currently down about 15% capacity (58AHr when I last checked) and is on track to lose the first capacity bar next summer. There is no getting away from the fact that, even in the absence of all other contributing factors, high ambient temps have a significant degrading effect on the traction battery. Comparable owners in cooler climates are experiencing none to little degradation.

The settings you use on your split system will really come down to an economic decision - cost of range degradation (ie. when would you need to replace the battery @$6k) vs cost of energy to cool the garage. If I had the setup you are describing, I would do the following:
1. Not worry about heating in winter. Extreme cold is not known as a contributing factor to capacity degradation.
2. Set the garage temp to maintain max ~85 in summer
3. Reduce the temp to ~80 during charging and for a couple of hours after (to combat temp rise from charging)
4. If planning a freeway trip, drop the temp to 70 2hrs prior, then put it back to 80 1hr prior.

I believe the Model 3 will have active thermal management on the battery, so temperature control won't be necessary for it.
 
I don't know if the mini-split is already installed or not, but it could be used anyway in a more productive location.

As RonDawg said, and pretty much everybody else would agree, it is the sweltering Phoenix / Vegas / Death Valley temperatures that kill the battery, as the heat degradation is exponential in my opinion. I found that really it is the heat in combination with the high state of charge that kills the battery, as the two effects seem to combine into a lethal environment.

However, one thing that could be done, which would be helpful all around, is to install a hybrid water heater, which essentially is an air conditioner that puts the extracted heat into the water instead of outside the house. And the hotter it is (to a point of course) the more efficient it is over the traditional electric elements for heating water. The water heater is a major user of electricity, so even though the hybrid water heater is a good bit more expensive, there is a reasonable payback time, depending on your location.
 
sub3marathonman said:
However, one thing that could be done, which would be helpful all around, is to install a hybrid water heater, which essentially is an air conditioner that puts the extracted heat into the water instead of outside the house. And the hotter it is (to a point of course) the more efficient it is over the traditional electric elements for heating water. The water heater is a major user of electricity, so even though the hybrid water heater is a good bit more expensive, there is a reasonable payback time, depending on your location.
Click to expand...

This would be an excellent solution.
 
Since you asked, here's what I would do (if I wanted to spend the $).
It shouldn't need to be repeated, but it is well documented that heat kills these batteries.
Anything you can do to keep the battery pack temperature (which can be monitored with LeafSpy/LeafDD/etc) < 90 degrees F will prolong battery life. The fact is, most people in warm (e.g. Southern climates) probably charge their Leafs in these conditions during the summer months (I know I do), which accelerates battery degradation. If I could keep/charge my Leaf in an environment < 90 degrees all the time, I would.
Them are the facts.
 
Aussie said:
powersurge said:
I may have others that disagree with me, but I do not feel you need to even worry about this issue.

...

What kills the battery is driving it until a low level of charge, storing the car at high levels of charge, and the passage of time.... Use the car as much as you can to get the most use of your battery before it deteriorates from time...
Click to expand...

For sure there will be those that disagree with you. You can add me to that number.

I live in Dallas, Texas. I purchased a 9-bar used 2011 leaf in December 2015, became an 8 bar in Feb 2016, new lizard battery installed March 2016. I charge to 80% with few exceptions, rarely deeply discharge, and park in covered ventilated garages at both home and work. I manage charging to the coolest time of the evening. Observed pack temps throughout summer rarely exceeded 100F. That battery is currently down about 15% capacity (58AHr when I last checked) and is on track to lose the first capacity bar next summer. There is no getting away from the fact that, even in the absence of all other contributing factors, high ambient temps have a significant degrading effect on the traction battery. Comparable owners in cooler climates are experiencing none to little degradation.

The settings you use on your split system will really come down to an economic decision - cost of range degradation (ie. when would you need to replace the battery @$6k) vs cost of energy to cool the garage. If I had the setup you are describing, I would do the following:
1. Not worry about heating in winter. Extreme cold is not known as a contributing factor to capacity degradation.
2. Set the garage temp to maintain max ~85 in summer
3. Reduce the temp to ~80 during charging and for a couple of hours after (to combat temp rise from charging)
4. If planning a freeway trip, drop the temp to 70 2hrs prior, then put it back to 80 1hr prior.

I believe the Model 3 will have active thermal management on the battery, so temperature control won't be necessary for it.
Click to expand...

-----------------

OK. Yes high temperatures in hot climates will kill the Leaf battery... So don't but a Leaf if you live there..

Trying to force the Leaf to live and work in those environments is like trying to cross the dessert with a horse instead of a camel..
 
tn77 said:
I want to preserve my electric car batteries (2011 Nissan Leaf with brand new 12-bar battery, future Tesla Model 3) with a climate-controlled garage. I got a mini-split unit installed and insulation added.

My goal isn't to make the garage a livable temperature -- 65-75 degrees -- but just to make it "not too cold" and then "not too hot" in the summer. I've been keeping the temperature around 55 in the winter. I was thinking I'd keep it around 80 in the summer.

What are your thoughts? I'm sure what I'm doing is better than no climate control at all, but do you recommend a different temperature for storing/charging the car?
Click to expand...

So where Is you Garage?? As you can see from the responses, the answer greatly depends on your location and climate.

Please put your location into your account information so that it show when you post something. Otherwise you will be asked for the location over and over again.

Thanks,
Dan
 
Keep battery around water freezing temperature and at 40-60% charge state.
In summer no more than 80F (on the floor, not head level).
Want to save on energy then stop cooling massive garage. You need to cool only battery.

This will degradation below 2% per year.
 

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