LeftieBiker
Posts: 9783
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:01 pm

The heaters only use about 300 watts, so they just aren't suited to warming the battery to a better operating temp. They can only stop the pack from "freezing."
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

BrockWI
Posts: 699
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:10 pm

I thought I read somewhere you could alter the thermostat to trick the car in to thinking it was colder than it was, say by 10F or 20F, but it would be nice to have it come on for say 2 hours while charging to warm the pack up. I know charging warms it a bit, but then I am lucky to see 3 bars instead of 2. Starting out at 4 bars would be nice :)

I know there was a thread with someone using oil pan heaters to warm the pack up.
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LeftieBiker
Posts: 9783
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:41 pm

BrockWI wrote:I thought I read somewhere you could alter the thermostat to trick the car in to thinking it was colder than it was, say by 10F or 20F, but it would be nice to have it come on for say 2 hours while charging to warm the pack up. I know charging warms it a bit, but then I am lucky to see 3 bars instead of 2. Starting out at 4 bars would be nice :)

I know there was a thread with someone using oil pan heaters to warm the pack up.


Yes on the oil pan heaters, but the tricked thermostat mod is for the Volt, to lower the temp at which the ICE starts.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

arnis
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:14 am

LeftieBiker wrote:The heaters only use about 300 watts, so they just aren't suited to warming the battery to a better operating temp. They can only stop the pack from "freezing."


300W is more than enough to heat the battery way above ambient. It just takes hours instead of minutes.
I estimate at least 10-15 degrees (metric) above ambient is reachable with the heating elements Leaf has.
Yes, if it is -40*C, Leaf battery will still freeze. Though this temperature is not available for long enough
where Leaf is actually sold.

Unfortunately, there is no known way to operate battery heater except opening the pack to change the temperature
sensor resistance values, so the heater will operate according to modified values. No wires come out of the pack.
I would like to switch it on myself as battery efficiency drops when there are less than 4 temperature bars.
And here where I live, I've been down to 2 bars (below -5*C inside the pack) many times. Even down to 1 bar.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
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Levenkay
Posts: 495
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:01 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2018
Leaf Number: 308382
Location: Portland, OR

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:10 pm

arnis wrote:300W is more than enough to heat the battery way above ambient. It just takes hours instead of minutes.

As scathing an indictment of the pack's poor cooling as I could imagine. What's needed is a way to *defeat* that kind of thermal insulation during the summer.

Dooglas
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:08 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 314779
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:04 pm

Levenkay wrote:As scathing an indictment of the pack's poor cooling as I could imagine. What's needed is a way to *defeat* that kind of thermal insulation during the summer.

What kind of pack cooling problems have you experienced in Portland, OR?
2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30

Levenkay
Posts: 495
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:01 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2018
Leaf Number: 308382
Location: Portland, OR

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:48 pm

Dooglas wrote:
Levenkay wrote:As scathing an indictment of the pack's poor cooling as I could imagine. What's needed is a way to *defeat* that kind of thermal insulation during the summer.

What kind of pack cooling problems have you experienced in Portland, OR?

Hitting 9 temperature bars (about 5 bars of "rise") during a multiple-QC journey from Bellingham to Portland in mid-40 degree F weather. I haven't bothered to chase down exact numbers, but isn't that about a 50 or 60 degree difference between the pack and a highway-speed airflow? I have to believe that even a modest forced-circulation liquid heat exchange system would get the heat out with way less temperature drop, and still let the pack stay insulated in cold environments (just don't run the circulation pump in that case).

BrockWI
Posts: 699
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Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:55 pm

I know the e-NV200 uses cooling, I believe it is just forced air and in one trip a youtuber did LOTS of fast charging and didn't see the kind of rise in temps that he saw with his Leaf. Granted passive cooling will help when it's not already 90F outside, but passive is better than nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9bHw0PS3uM
3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - eight L16's
4 ton GSHP
2003 VW TDI 180k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
evse level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
@70k miles - 56.56Ahr - 86 SOH - 82.55 Hx - 245 GID

jjeff
Posts: 1732
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Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:02 pm

Cool video, a bit long but interesting none the less. Active cooling on a Nissan!
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arnis
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:41 pm

9 temperature bars very "temporarily" is absolutely fine. Don't worry.
Just don't do this every week for years.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

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