LeftieBiker
Posts: 9379
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:32 pm

The "Lizard" battery was designed to eliminate degradation bad enough to qualify for warranty replacement, and so far that is the case - outside of very Hot places like Arizona. Trying to get a 12 bar '15 pack to qualify for a new warranty replacement is likely to get the OP nothing more than a 10 bar Leaf as the warranty expires.
Last edited by LeftieBiker on Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:15 pm

Lefty,

As I noted before, my experience is that Leaf Spy numbers drop for the 2015 when the car is driven and charged gently. We can argue about the reasons, but there is another thread that discusses it. You are correct, there is very little chance of qualifying for a replacement 2015 battery under the capacity warranty. I suggest the OP just drive and charge the car normally. I doubt there is much benefit in trying to limit charge level if the car is driven daily and some cell balancing is lost when charging is stopped early.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9379
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:20 pm

We are really pretty close in advice, then. I don't suggest never charging to 100%, just to try to avoid it when it does no good, and to avoid charging at all when the pack is hot. One interesting question that occurs to me: is it safe to charge a Lizard pack with 6 temp bars displayed? Maybe...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GerryAZ
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:00 am

LeftieBiker wrote:We are really pretty close in advice, then. I don't suggest never charging to 100%, just to try to avoid it when it does no good, and to avoid charging at all when the pack is hot. One interesting question that occurs to me: is it safe to charge a Lizard pack with 6 temp bars displayed? Maybe...


My battery is at 5 temperature bars now (at night in January). If I did not charge at 6 temperature bars (or 7 or 8), I would not be able to drive the car in the summer. Is it safe? Yes--there will not be catastrophic failure. Is it detrimental? I doubt it, but who knows? Charging at 8 or above is probably detrimental, but I don't worry because I bought the car to use.

Kevin should get a lot of use out of his low-mileage car. The Leaf Spy numbers will likely improve for a while with normal use and the long term 2015 battery deterioration in his relatively mild climate should be minimal.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9379
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:42 am

By "safe" I meant "Does a Lizard pack degrade as little when charged at 6 bars as a 3/2013-2014 "Wolf" pack does at 5 bars? I fully understand that many drivers have to charge at 6 or 7 bars, but we are fairly certain that at least from 7 bars on up that degrades the pack faster. The poster to whom I'm responding seems willing to take some extra precautions to extend his pack's life, so I'm just trying to give reasonable advice for that particular situation.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

kEV
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:23 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 330597

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:23 am

I really appreciate the info here guys. It's helping me learn how to use the car. I'm a little worried about how fast the battery percentage drops right now in the winter and wanted to run the numbers by you to see if this is normal.

Temp outside 22F. I left this morning at 96% (67 mile range) to do some errands with D mode on (no eco) and drove it normally, switching over to B mode (no eco) quickly as the battery dropped to 88% rather quickly. My wife was with me, so two seat heaters and running the heat too. ~1.8 mil/kW

I've just returned home, 30 mile round trip, now 40% (27 mile range). This seems like the battery just plummets as I'm driving it. I know it's cold outside but I'm limited to very short errand trips around the city worrying about getting stuck on the side of the road in the freezing temps.

Is this normal??

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9379
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:24 pm

As the temperature drops the range drops as well, especially when you use heat. That is NOT an admonishment not to use the heat, just a statement of reality. Your car isn't rapidly losing capacity, it's just using lots of juice to run the heater. Even the heatpump-equipped cars turn into energy hogs when temps fall below the upper twenties.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

warrenc
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:33 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2017
Leaf Number: 418438
Location: Tacoma,WA

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:54 pm

In my limited experience, the range drops dramatically below freezing. We had a cold snap last month and I was amazed how much my range went down, even avoiding using the heat as much as possible. Lately it's warmed up here in the PNW to the 40's and everything is back to normal. I had read that the range was reduced by cold weather, but I was still shocked by how much it was reduced!
I suppose you just have to plan accordingly during the winter.
2013 Leaf SV
Tacoma, WA

GerryAZ
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:15 am

Kevin,

Since the car only has 4900 miles on it, I assume you still have the Michelin tires that came on it. I suggest that you inflate them to at least 40 and preferably 44 psi to get best tread life and range. Your 1.8 mi/kWh consumption rate indicates a lot of energy was being used (cabin heat probably used a fair amount) so your range will be down and 40% SOC left after driving 30 miles seems reasonable. Try to preheat the cabin while plugged in so that less battery power is used for heat. There is a setting for the climate control timer and remote activation desired temperature set point under one of the menus on the navigation screen. I suggest that you set that to 85 or 90 degrees F for heating so that the heat will run steady while preheating to get the car as warm as possible while plugged in. You will need to set the desired temperature lower for A/C pre-cooling next summer.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

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jlv
Posts: 862
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Is this SOH normal?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:13 pm

kEV wrote:with D mode on (no eco) and drove it normally, switching over to B mode (no eco)

In addition to that GerryAZ said about tire pressure, consider using ECO mode. It will improve your range by helping reduce the power you get when you press the accelerator. If you need full power, just press the accelerator all the way.
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17) 33K miTesla S 75D (3/17) 27K mi
3 reservation canceled; X on order.

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