Has my battery capacity already dropped THIS much?

When I turn on my car in the morning after a night charging (always to 80%), I now have "65 miles" listed as my range. I didn't take note of exactly how much I had when I first got the car, but I think it was around 75. This is without any A/C on, just in park. I got my car in January, have only driven 1600 miles, and never charge to 100%. WHAT GIVES, NISSAN? :x

Did you have your Leaf reprogrammed as part of the service campaign by chance?

Your theoretical maximum range hasn't dropped.

The calculation of range based on YOUR DRIVING HABITS has dropped.

It just means that you've been driving it like a bat out of hell and your calculated range is less. Drive more economically (more trees... more ECO) and your range will go up.

Think of it like the average MPG reading on your trip odometer on your old car. Drive like a bat out of hell it goes down... drive more economically it goes up.

Same idea.

I highly doubt the actual capacity of your battery has gone down. (the estimated range # will not tell you that)

cdub said:

I highly doubt the actual capacity of your battery has gone down. (the estimated range # will not tell you that)

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Correct, it will not. However, the series of lights to the right of the "gas gauge" will, according to the owners guide. As capacity diminishes, those lights will go down to show you where the new full is... Of course, none of us have had our cars long enough to see that happen yet.

But, according to the service manual, the battery has to degrade by 15% before the top light blinks out.

Ray

Yes, it seems that if we rely solely upon the "Capacity Gauge", we will not know if our usage is "too aggressive" until it is too late.

So, getting a dealer to do an early "battery check" (at delivery and perhaps every 3-months) might be wise. However, the "battery check" might not include any better Capacity information.

I intend to do so.

Has anybody gotten a "Battery Check" printout that they could post, please?

garygid said:

Yes, it seems that if we rely solely upon the "Capacity Gauge", we will not know if our usage is "too aggressive" until it is too late.

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Besides charging to 80% instead of 100% when feasible, and not running the car all the way down to "turtle", one can't go wrong by driving gently whenever possible. You'll get more miles/kWh and save on your electric bills. And when one of those capacity bars is finally lost (hopefully not until after years have gone by), there won't be any regrets about having been too aggressive with the car.

Happy Easter!

Some driving usage is less predictable, not just a short to and from work, so charging to 100% is the only other option Nissan has provided (no 90%, no 95%).

So, even with very "gentle" actual driving style, is the 100% charging alone a "subtantial" factor in battery Capacity loss?

One can only guess that it IS a "too aggressive" factor, otherwise Nissan would not have provided the "long life" (80% charging) mode.

The question is, just how detrimental is 100% charging?

Having had our LEAF for 1,700 miles so far, I've found a tremendous range difference based on driving style. For example, we charged the battery to 100% and then drove 35 miles away on a 65 mph speed limit road with many hills (several hundred feet elevation) using ECO the whole way. I "hypermiled" it by shifting to neutral on some of the longer stretches and using ECO regeneration on the shorter declines and running between 45 and 55 mph (up to 80 on one of the downhill sections with no traffic) . When we got to our destinaton we had over 70 miles left showing on the range. We got home with nearly 30 miles left (on the way back I set the speed at 55 mph).

In contrast, yesterday I charged to 80% and drove to town (15 miles) over hilly terrain and went the speed limit to and from town (55 mph and 65 mph). The total mileage for the trip was 52 and when we pulled into the garage the range was listed as 14 miles remaining.

The total for the first trip was about 100 miles on 100% charge. The total for the second trip was 66 miles on an 80% charge. Thus, I lost about 14 miles in comparison with the first trip due to driving style (80% = 80 miles) which equates to 17.5% (14/80).

Regarding range changing over time, my experience was that the range seemed to improve with time and I wondered if there was a certain amount of "break in" due to all the rotating pieces getting settled in. Of course it could be that it is just my driving style improving.

As one soon to get delivery, all these comments raise a question. If I have a three year lease and do not intend to keep the car, what is the downside to charging to 100% all of the time?

For one thing when you sign the lease papers there is an end of lease assessment of the vehicle because you are responsible for anything out of normal wear and tear. However, I don't remember anything specific about the battery capacity.
When mine was being upgraded, the regional technician that performed the software upgrade said that there is a couple of test units outside of Phoenix that are being QC'd twice a day and that the batteries seem to be holding up quite well. This brings up the question which is the hardest on the battery, QC'ing it or charging to 100% with L2?

ERG4ALL said:

For one thing when you sign the lease papers there is an end of lease assessment of the vehicle because you are responsible for anything out of normal wear and tear. However, I don't remember anything specific about the battery capacity.
When mine was being upgraded, the regional technician that performed the software upgrade said that there is a couple of test units outside of Phoenix that are being QC'd twice a day and that the batteries seem to be holding up quite well. This brings up the question which is the hardest on the battery, QC'ing it or charging to 100% with L2?

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According to the Battery Information Sheet, Avoiding Frequent Use of QC is rated "3 Stars" and Charging to 80% is rated "5 Stars".

So it seems like charging to 100% is harder on the batteries.

PS. Driving aggressively (using too much electric consumption) is rated "2 Stars".

Since there is no Battery Capacity Warranty, it is unlikely that you would/could be penalised for ANY amount of battery capacity loss.

Desertstraw said:

As one soon to get delivery, all these comments raise a question. If I have a three year lease and do not intend to keep the car, what is the downside to charging to 100% all of the time?

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There is no downside if you only plan to keep the car 3 years. Charge it all the way and don't worry about it.

Desertstraw said:

As one soon to get delivery, all these comments raise a question. If I have a three year lease and do not intend to keep the car, what is the downside to charging to 100% all of the time?

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You'd be wasting energy...and ecologically expensive battery life. The fact that you won't pay personally isn't the most important element in my mind. We all know the societal cost often dwarfs the personal.

palmermd said:

Desertstraw said:

As one soon to get delivery, all these comments raise a question. If I have a three year lease and do not intend to keep the car, what is the downside to charging to 100% all of the time?

Click to expand...

There is no downside if you only plan to keep the car 3 years. Charge it all the way and don't worry about it.

Click to expand...

One of the downsides is that you may change your mind after three years and decide to keep it if nothing better is available, and then your battery pack probably won't last as long.

greenleaf said:

...According to the Battery Information Sheet, Avoiding Frequent Use of QC is rated "3 Stars" and Charging to 80% is rated "5 Stars".

So it seems like charging to 100% is harder on the batteries.

PS. Driving aggressively (using too much electric consumption) is rated "2 Stars".

Click to expand...

http://home.roadrunner.com/~mhebert/rm/Battery_Information_Sheet.pdf

First time I saw this, thanks. Seems to me to say that frequent charging from a high state of charge-'topping off' to 100%-does the most harm.

Seems to (somewhat) contradict the conventional wisdom of other battery life threads, that avoiding fast charging, especially to 'top off', was the best battery life extension technique. Or am I misremembering what I've read?

This is a sample form and I interpret it differently. What I see is that it is showing sample star ratings for a mythical driver. Thus, he got 5 stars for this and 3 stars for that, etc. Another driver could have a completely different star ratings based on his usage, and might have 5 or 3 or whatever number of stars in every category. Thus, it is NOT showing what the relative rating of each category is but rather how that driver did within that category. So, to me, this sample form is worthless in trying to figure out how Nissan rates each scenario overall. It shows nothing more than what a report might look like.

edatoakrun said:

greenleaf said:

...According to the Battery Information Sheet, Avoiding Frequent Use of QC is rated "3 Stars" and Charging to 80% is rated "5 Stars".

So it seems like charging to 100% is harder on the batteries.

PS. Driving aggressively (using too much electric consumption) is rated "2 Stars".

Click to expand...

http://home.roadrunner.com/~mhebert/rm/Battery_Information_Sheet.pdf

First time I saw this, thanks. Seems to me to say that frequent charging from a high state of charge-'topping off' to 100%-does the most harm.

Seems to (somewhat) contradict the conventional wisdom of other battery life threads, that avoiding fast charging, especially to 'top off', was the best battery life extension technique. Or am I misremembering what I've read?

Click to expand...

LEAFfan said:

palmermd said:

Desertstraw said:

As one soon to get delivery, all these comments raise a question. If I have a three year lease and do not intend to keep the car, what is the downside to charging to 100% all of the time?

Click to expand...

There is no downside if you only plan to keep the car 3 years. Charge it all the way and don't worry about it.

Click to expand...

One of the downsides is that you may change your mind after three years and decide to keep it if nothing better is available, and then your battery pack probably won't last as long.

Click to expand...

Do you really believe that we will not have better storage devices in electric cars three years from now?

edatoakrun said:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~mhebert/rm/Battery_Information_Sheet.pdf

First time I saw this, thanks. Seems to me to say that frequent charging from a high state of charge-'topping off' to 100%-does the most harm.

Seems to (somewhat) contradict the conventional wisdom of other battery life threads, that avoiding fast charging, especially to 'top off', was the best battery life extension technique. Or am I misremembering what I've read?

Click to expand...

Lithium batteries don't like to be stored when close to 100% full. The longer they are stored at high SOC, the faster the battery degrades. Even worse is if this is done at high temperatures.

By frequently topping off the battery, you are making sure the battery spends more time at or near 100% full.

The BMS won't let you quick charge to "top off" it starts ramping down the charge rate by 80% SOC. That's also why regen is limited by the BMS when driving at a SOC > 80%.