Took Friends to Pickup Their Leaf--Rejected It

Yesterday I took friends to pickup their Leaf at Northbay Nissan. Spent two and a half hours in traffic for a 6:00PM walk through. First thing I was surprised at was that my friends were asked to give their social and sign a credit application even though they weren't financing, but paying with a check. I don't recall doing this when I bought my Leaf from them in April via check.

While they were doing some preliminary paperwork, I went to the back to see how many Leafs were on the ground--they had 17! That's a big change over April, when there were three. Unfortunately, the Leaf my friends ordered had a body/paint issue that I found where the front fender and front valence seam was pinched at one end which damaged the paint at the seam. Touch up would be easy, but the panels need to be R&R'd to be hung properly.

I was surprised this wasn't caught in the week that the car was on the lot. I suggested to my friends that they either take delivery of the car and pay on the basis of having a Due Bill signed by a manager stating that the body work would be done when convenient for my friends or not take delivery or pay until the car was repaired to satisfaction. The sales manager wouldn't fill out a Due Bill, said it was a Nissan warranty issue that would have to be approved. So my friend opted to not take delivery or pay for the car. What a hassle and waste of time for all involved. You'd think a franchised Nissan dealership would able to represent what Nissan would likely repair under warranty on a new, undelivered car, but apparently not.

I should mention that Ron Coury has been great, but I guess wasn't around yesterday evening and that Northbay is a very low pressure dealership where I found the sales process for our Leaf to be very positive. I just feel bad for my friends.

It's typical for a dealership to run a credit report even when paying in full by check. They want to ensure that the check isn't going to bounce. If your friends had a poor credit rating, it's likely the dealership would have insisted on a cashiers check or electronic transfer before letting them drive off.

There is no excuse for North Bay's poor attitude on the paint issues. They should have been embarrassed and helpful rather than blame Nissan and play games.

positive identification which includes SSN is also required here as well. that is WA State car reg requirement. has nothing to do with how you pay for the car

I've paid in full many times in the past by check and never had a credit report run, nor have I given them my SSN. I'd refuse any such request as a credit report is meaningless in determining whether or not a check is good. Calling the bank's automated funds availability line is a much better way to verify a check and funds if they feel the need to do so... For positive ID, a driver's license meets all the legal requirements in California.

nkole said:

It's typical for a dealership to run a credit report even when paying in full by check. They want to ensure that the check isn't going to bounce. If your friends had a poor credit rating, it's likely the dealership would have insisted on a cashiers check or electronic transfer before letting them drive off.

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My understanding is the new financial reform laws include a provision that allow merchants to require a credit check with check writing. The rules are different than in the past.

Ron

Leafittome said:

First thing I was surprised at was that my friends were asked to give their social and sign a credit application even though they weren't financing, but paying with a check. I don't recall doing this when I bought my Leaf from them in April via check.

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It is a common practice and makes sense. For my last car (3 years ago) I was able to work around it by taking a Money Order. This time, at Boardwalk, they only option they gave me was to do a wire transfer and I can take the car only after the money is deposited in their account. Anyway, I was looking into leasing option also, so they ran my credit check.

I would not have let the car go. Complete the deal and let the dealer fix the damage. That or arrainge for a replacement vehicle. Either way I would not have left without a commitment to buy.

I see no reason for anyone getting upset for a requested credit check. If you have not made arraingements in advance that is the way the car business operates. Otherwise bring the actual cash and even that will require a registration of the transaction (including ss#) as it is over $10,000.

smkettner said:

I would not have let the car go. Complete the deal and let the dealer fix the damage. That or arrainge for a replacement vehicle. Either way I would not have left without a commitment to buy.

I see no reason for anyone getting upset for a requested credit check. If you have not made arraingements in advance that is the way the car business operates. Otherwise bring the actual cash and even that will require a registration of the transaction (including ss#) as it is over $10,000.

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The car was not let go. This car is my friend's car, he has an order with Nissan, if they try to sell the car to someone else they will be in breach of contract. The dealer is just a delivery point and unwilling to stand behind the car or the manufacturer. The dealer was unwilling to commit to fixing the car. Arranging for a replacement Leaf isn't going to happen. Why should my friend pay for the car when the dealer won't even commit to deliver an undamaged car or fix it at a later time? The sales manager couldn't even be bothered to look at the damage. As I reflect upon this, I'm really not sure what the dealer value add is. A Due Bill saying that the dealer would work with Nissan to have this panel fit and paint issue corrected would not have been a big deal, clearly they aren't making enough on Leaf sales to care about customer service.

The salesperson said nothing about pulling a bureau, which by law he should have, instead he said something about needing the name, social and address info for DMV paperwork. A credit app. has absolutely nothing to do with DMV paperwork and DMV doesn't require a social. When I told him that didn't make sense, he then told me that they had made this a policy due to a bounced check from a customer. I bought a Leaf in late April from this dealer and did not have to furnish a social or sign a credit app.

I'm very unimpressed with what transpired yesterday, and I wouldn't blame my friends for releasing the car. What a waste of six hours. You may feel that dealers are entitled to do whatever they want, but I don't share that opinion. I don't trust any of them and they live down to my expectations more often than not.

Leafittome said:

he has an order with Nissan, if they try to sell the car to someone else they will be in breach of contract. The dealer is just a delivery point and unwilling to stand behind the car or the manufacturer.

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I believe that is a misconception. He made a reservation with Nissan NA, and Nissan NA helped arrange for a charging station and provided a conduit for the order, but the order was between the purchaser and the dealer.

Ray

planet4ever said:

I believe that is a misconception. He made a reservation with Nissan NA, and Nissan NA helped arrange for a charging station and provided a conduit for the order, but the order was between the purchaser and the dealer.

Ray

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If the dealer takes no responsibility for the condition of the car it delivers, then I must assume they are not responsible for the order. They can't have it both ways.

Leafittome said:

I'm very unimpressed with what transpired yesterday, and I wouldn't blame my friends for releasing the car. What a waste of six hours. You may feel that dealers are entitled to do whatever they want, but I don't share that opinion. I don't trust any of them and they live down to my expectations more often than not.

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Well the dealer doesn't trust your friends either. A credit check resolves the dealer trust issue.
I certainly would not take a personal check for a car I sold so I don't blame the dealer for doing same.
Besides what is the big deal about a credit check? If it lowers your score enough to matter then they have other issues.
Telecheck does not work on $35,000 personal checks.

smkettner said:

Leafittome said:

I'm very unimpressed with what transpired yesterday, and I wouldn't blame my friends for releasing the car. What a waste of six hours. You may feel that dealers are entitled to do whatever they want, but I don't share that opinion. I don't trust any of them and they live down to my expectations more often than not.

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Well the dealer doesn't trust your friends either. A credit check resolves the dealer trust issue.
I certainly would not take a personal check for a car I sold so I don't blame the dealer for doing same.
Besides what is the big deal about a credit check? If it lowers your score enough to matter then they have other issues.
Telecheck does not work on $35,000 personal checks.

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The pretense for asking for a social security number on a signed credit app. was not truthful. It had nothing to do with the DMV, as first described by the sales person. You cannot ask for a social security number and credit application on false pretenses. My friend submitted a company check, which he called ahead about. They need only have called the bank to check on funds availability, as all merchants do routinely.

Leafittome said:

The pretense for asking for a social security number on a signed credit app. was not truthful. It had nothing to do with the DMV, as first described by the sales person. You cannot ask for a social security number and credit application on false pretenses. My friend submitted a company check, which he called ahead about. They need only have called the bank to check on funds availability, as all merchants do routinely.

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With all due respect, I don't think that this is specific to North Bay Nissan. My dealer gave me the same crap and when I pushed back they relented. I have heard from other sources that many, if not all, dealerships train their sales staff to get the customer's social and run a credit report no matter what. One of the reasons for this is presumably that it allows the dealer to sell financing and make more money from the deal. With your social in hand, they can also make you sign an optional finance agreement, which kicks in if your own financing did not work out or if your check bounced. I'm with you however, I'm not a fan of this kind of dealer BS.

"So my friend opted to not take delivery or pay for the car."

Before lots of people get interested, the car is not an orphan, its just in limbo between the dealer and the prospective owner..

I'm sure the dealer will get approval for warranty work so it should be ready in a week or two .. not good if they have to do body work and paint on a new car, it will never be up to the factory paint job. Hopefully they wont cook the battery in the paint oven. The fault lies with Nissan for delivering a damaged car and for the dealer in accepting it.

Herm said:

"So my friend opted to not take delivery or pay for the car."

Before lots of people get interested, the car is not an orphan, its just in limbo between the dealer and the prospective owner..

I'm sure the dealer will get approval for warranty work so it should be ready in a week or two .. not good if they have to do body work and paint on a new car, it will never be up to the factory paint job. Hopefully they wont cook the battery in the paint oven. The fault lies with Nissan for delivering a damaged car and for the dealer in accepting it.

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That's absolutely correct. The next steps are for the dealer to call Nissan warranty on Tuesday to seek approval for the bodywork. The car has not been orphaned, I fully expect Nissan to approve the work. The paint issue is very minor, but the panel fitting does require more skill. Cars are often damaged during the delivery process, this wasn't necessarily a factory issue. I think we would all be shocked to know how often bodywork has been done on a new, undelivered car. I expect Nissan and Northbay Nissan to handle this professionally and with a favorable end result.

surfingslovak said:

With all due respect, I don't think that this is specific to North Bay Nissan. My dealer gave me the same crap and when I pushed back they relented. I have heard from other sources that many, if not all, dealerships train their sales staff to get the customer's social and run a credit report no matter what. One of the reasons for this is presumably that this allows the dealer to sell financing and make more money from the deal. With your social in hand, they can also make you sign an optional finance agreement, which kicks in if your own financing did not work out or if your check bounced. I'm with you however, I'm not a fan of this kind of dealer BS.

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Yes, you are correct, I know why dealers do this, but the salesperson did not disclose what the real purpose for the social and credit app. was. As it turns out, I did provide my social to Northbay Nissan verbally to F&I, I didn't remember because I didn't see or sign the credit application. I shouldn't have had to with a bank check, but I understand the dealer wanting to protect themselves.

DaveinOlyWA said:

positive identification which includes SSN is also required here as well. that is WA State car reg requirement. has nothing to do with how you pay for the car

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It is against the law to require a social security number for identification. I know that everybody, including IRS, does it but the law has been on the books ever since S.S. was created. People rightly feared a national identity card.

Leafittome said:

Yesterday I took friends to pickup their Leaf at Northbay Nissan. Spent two and a half hours in traffic for a 6:00PM walk through. First thing I was surprised at was that my friends were asked to give their social and sign a credit application even though they weren't financing, but paying with a check. I don't recall doing this when I bought my Leaf from them in April via check.
...

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If paying all cash I think they may have to notify the IRS of the transaction. Maybe "credit application" is a euphemism for IRS report?

When I went to pickup my Leaf they asked me for my SSN as well. I refused. I had a pre approved credit union financing approval and they said they could not just lookup the approval without my SSN. I called my CU and let them talk to the car sales guy there and he just repeated the same story to my CU that they needed my SSN to run the credit union direct lending lookup (CUDL), even with them on the phone telling him that wasn't true, what an ass. He even had his sleezeball "manager" come in and tell me that they needed my SSN to do the CUDL lookup which was also a lie. I was not going to give them my SSN no matter what. I had a credit freeze in effect that I had unfrozen to run the pre-approval prior to coming to the dealership and it was already re-frozen. They could not have run my credit even if they wanted to.

I ended up having to go back to my CU and get the financing done there and bring them a check from my CU to do the deal. I was able to do the deal and get out of there without having to give my SSN. The sales guy was eager to get me out of there too, I think because I was one of the first reservations/orders that they sold for $100 less then invoice and they weren't making any money on me. He didn't even bother to go though the functions of the car with me, and yet the customer checklist was already filled out. (I had read though the manual online as well as the full service manual so I didn't really need the walk though.)

Lesson learned, always bring a check from your bank with the exact amount needed.

TurboFroggy said:

I think because I was one of the first reservations/orders that they sold for $100 less then invoice and they weren't making any money on me.

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Not to be too OT, but just because they sell a car at or below invoice doesn't mean the dealer isn't making any money. There's holdback (http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/dealer-holdback/) and incentives/rebates, which I'd imagine for the Leaf is $0 since there's no need.