jlsoaz
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Leaf Number: 24218
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Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:23 am

Stanton wrote:
Roadburner440 wrote:However that 9-11 hour recharge time would be about the only drawback I could think of for me going to a 30kwh pack. So there will be reasons to lure people to get a new Leaf if they so choose.


I think you're overestimating that charge time. If I can charge my 24 kWh pack in < 5 hours (L2), then a 30 kWh pack shouldn't be more than 7-8. I will be happy to get my 24 kWh "lizard" replacement pack, but the reality is eventually Nissan will stop making (2) versions of the battery pack and only 30 kWh will be sold. However, that should take at least another year since they are selling a 24 kWh 2016 "S" version.


I think even if Roadburner was a bit off on charge time estimate, they still have a point. A 2012 Leaf burdened with one of the old 3.3 kW AC onboard chargers for L2 might, as you say, take about 7-8 hours to charge from nearly depleted to nearly full. This is a bit of a pain, though not prohibitive to ownership. Also it leads to the question of whether a 30 kWh retrofit, whether carried out paid for by the owner or by the dealer, could also include an onboard AC charge equipment retrofit to 6.6 kW or higher and how much this would add to the cost.

Good point about probable reduction in sales of 24 kWh variants as versus 30 kWh variants, though it would seem to depend in part on pricing decisions.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
josh@jlaz.com
opinions expressed are my own

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OrientExpress
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Leaf Number: 2331
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Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:19 pm

Good point about probable reduction in sales of 24 kWh variants as versus 30 kWh variants, though it would seem to depend in part on pricing decisions.


For 2014 and 2015 the #1 selling trim level for the LEAF in California was the "S" trim with the 3.3Kw charger. This will probably carry through for 2016.

The rankings is:
#1 LEAF S
#2 LEAF SL
#3 LEAF SV

New purchasers of the LEAF (in California) seem to be looking for cheap economical transportation first and recharge time second (if charging time even comes into the purchase equation)
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Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

jlsoaz
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
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Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:55 pm

Perhaps an additional question would be - how much would folks be willing to pay to buy a used Leaf retrofitted with a new battery. I'm not that interested in a 24 kWh Leaf, new, used, or whatever, but I'd be slightly interested in a used Leaf with a 30 kWh new battery. I guess about $18k would seem about right to me. It doesn't mean I will do this (I very likely won't, even if I run across it) but under other circumstances, maybe.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
josh@jlaz.com
opinions expressed are my own

EvieInCA
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Leaf Number: 405173

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:43 pm

It's in Nissan's interest to allow a 30 kWh pack retrofit on previous year cars, if nothing else to stop the hemorrhaging of depreciation plaguing used Leafs.

Nissan owns the majority of them and the crappy residuals forces leasing subsidies on new cars as residuals tank.

I can't see Nissan doing something that wouldn't be in their interest, and a 30 kWh retrofit - perhaps on CPO models at some point in the future- would elevate the floor on these cars. It would also be a more interesting reason to keep the car rather than dumping it at lease end.

jlsoaz
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Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:08 am

EvieInCA wrote:It's in Nissan's interest to allow a 30 kWh pack retrofit on previous year cars, if nothing else to stop the hemorrhaging of depreciation plaguing used Leafs.

Nissan owns the majority of them and the crappy residuals forces leasing subsidies on new cars as residuals tank.

I can't see Nissan doing something that wouldn't be in their interest, and a 30 kWh retrofit - perhaps on CPO models at some point in the future- would elevate the floor on these cars. It would also be a more interesting reason to keep the car rather than dumping it at lease end.


Basically, I agree, or at least I haven't heard a compelling argument why it is not in Nissan's interests. It would make sense in my view at least to have more discussion of what the issues are and see if a case can be made for Nissan offering 30 kWh retrofits.

It's hard to speculate in such matters since we are not privy to the exact numbers (even if the costs for the party paying for the retrofit would be not only the battery but also some possibly expensive associated equipment). Even though it's hard for outsiders to speculate, I think it would be worth it to press the matter.

When I started the thread there were those who focused in on whether Nissan would do this rather than whether it would make sense for them to do it. I think there were others who opined that in their view it would not make sense for Nissan to do this. I think we should not forget that there is some history of Nissan at first not doing things that make sense, but eventually coming around.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
josh@jlaz.com
opinions expressed are my own

EvieInCA
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Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:17 am

I'd be shocked if the larger pack wasn't a drop in replacement, perhaps with some very minor software tweaks.

Having a larger pack launched prior to the full model refresh is literally the best thing that's happened to this car since the 2013 update.

jlsoaz
Posts: 607
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Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:09 am

EvieInCA wrote:I'd be shocked if the larger pack wasn't a drop in replacement, perhaps with some very minor software tweaks.


I don't remember if I heard this on this board, from Nissan, or somewhere else, but I've heard a reason that contributes to the non-availability of the 30 kWh for retrofitting into the older Leafs is that there is actually substantially more than would need to be altered than the battery. BMS? Something else? I'm not sure what was meant. [edit: This is not to say that I think we should stop asking Nissan to be open-minded to possibly changing their mind about this, and I think it would be good to ask them for some information. Perhaps they are concerned it would be very exepensive whereas some of us might still be interested? It's hard to know without more information.]

EvieInCA wrote:Having a larger pack launched prior to the full model refresh is literally the best thing that's happened to this car since the 2013 update.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
josh@jlaz.com
opinions expressed are my own

desiv
Posts: 594
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Leaf Number: 018850
Location: Lincoln City, Oregon

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:21 pm

EvieInCA wrote:It's in Nissan's interest to allow a 30 kWh pack retrofit on previous year cars, if nothing else to stop the hemorrhaging of depreciation plaguing used Leafs. .

Not sure I see that..
I don't think the value of a used car would be that different with a 24kWh pack as opposed to a 30kWh pack.
Assuming they are both "new" packs, it's a used car..

I can't see KBB listing the value of a 2012 Leaf with a 30kWh pack being all that much higher than one with a 24, so I don't see it affecting the depreciation...

And, it's in Nissan's best interest to sell new cars, so I'm not sure I see the benefit on their end..

I think it would be great, but I don't see it from that perspective.
Perhaps, if it's more cost effective to produce all 30kWh packs, then maybe.. Otherwise, I don't see it..

desiv
2012 Leaf SL - Silver (gone - traded in)
2017 Bolt LT - Red

Phatcat73
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Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:32 pm

I know of one Nissan service center that hates the Leaf due to little maintenance required. Nissan corp could throw them a bone with a battery upgrade service.
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mjblazin
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Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:35 pm

I can anticipate getting a replacement battery given how long I usually own same car. Depending on pricing difference, I might likely not pay more for a 30. By then I would have driven for years living within aging capacity of 24. The extra benefit of 30 may not be that important. As the software developer for my business applications said many years ago when I wondered about an expensive feature with some incremental benefit, it is not exactly Hercules Unchained.
2013 SL Blue Ocean
Bought used, March 2015 12,764 miles
4th bar drop 56 month, 20,200 miles, AHr at 42.1
Replaced battery.
Appears fully loaded
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