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Nubo
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Re: Nissan IDS concept shows Next Gen Leaf with 60kwh

Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:25 pm

asimba2 wrote:The apparent lack of battery thermal management is a disappointment.


There's nothing inherently virtuous about active thermal management, and there are definite drawbacks. It depends on the needs of the cells. The new chemistry may or may not require it. The lower internal resistance is a good sign; at least in terms of heat from charging/discharging.

An ideal EV would not have, nor need, active thermal management. It consumes energy from the battery that is better-used for motion and complicates the life of the owner. One thing I'm quite happy with regarding LEAF is that I can leave it sit for weeks, and the pack still has nearly the same range remaining as when I left. Such cannot be said for a Tesla, for example.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

asimba2
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Re: Nissan IDS concept shows Next Gen Leaf with 60kwh

Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:31 pm

Nubo wrote:
asimba2 wrote:The apparent lack of battery thermal management is a disappointment.


There's nothing inherently virtuous about active thermal management, and there are definite drawbacks. It depends on the needs of the cells. The new chemistry may or may not require it. The lower internal resistance is a good sign; at least in terms of heat from charging/discharging.

An ideal EV would not have, nor need, active thermal management. It consumes energy from the battery that is better-used for motion and complicates the life of the owner. One thing I'm quite happy with regarding LEAF is that I can leave it sit for weeks, and the pack still has nearly the same range remaining as when I left. Such cannot be said for a Tesla, for example.


I agree with everything you said, however take a look at the 2015 lizard battery thread and you'll find at least four 2015 owners that are already down to 58 amp hours (~12% capacity loss), exactly the same loss as my 2013 that lives in a 100+ degree climate. This proves to me that the lizard battery is not the solution. I agree that the lower internal resistance stated in the 60kw battery article is a good sign, but it needs to be leaps-and-bounds better than the 2015 lizard battery, else it needs TMS.

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evnow
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Re: Nissan IDS concept shows Next Gen Leaf with 60kwh

Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:42 pm

Do they state anywhere that there won't be some kind of active management ?

There was an article about Bolt battery that talks about "air" cooled instead of liquid cooled. I wonder whether LG is using Freon ...
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kmp647
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Re: Nissan IDS concept shows Next Gen Leaf with 60kwh

Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:52 pm

They could easily integrate active tms into the existing pack design.
The i3 uses a series of thin flat aluminum tubes for freon cooling. And a heating element all in th bottom of the pack. It may use some extra energy , but it doesn't make the pack any larger really and uses the existing ac compressor. Having had a leaf for 50,000 miles and seeing the temps on the pack in the summertime and losing 2 bars made me appreciate the need for a tms. So unless there is some new chemistry, I'd rather my gen 2 Leaf ( can't wait to get my gen 2 Leaf) have an active TMS.

On my i3 I can check the pack temp , see if at 84 degrees say on. A hot day , then check it afte driving(tms activates) and see the temp drop 10 degrees. Same with charging . Btw the i3 tms will not activate unless the car is powered on or charging so there are no vampire losses if parked. The pack just gets cold or hot if left parked.
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knightmb
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Re: Nissan IDS concept shows Next Gen Leaf with 60kwh

Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:07 pm

asimba2 wrote:The apparent lack of battery thermal management is a disappointment.

Not for me, I like things to be simple with less maintenance. If the physics and technology support a path to batteries that don't need a thermal management system, it would be like driving a gas car without the need for a radiator or coolant pump. It should be researched and developed because it will benefit everyone in the long run. Even if requires just passive forced air cooling, that would be about as complicated as I would want the battery technology.

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evnow
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Re: Nissan IDS concept shows Next Gen Leaf with 60kwh

Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:29 pm

This is like the fanless compter - unheard of earlier, but the norm (in tablets & phones) now.

Question is - is Nissan's battery (LG's ?) ready for it ?

We won't know the answer for a few years - that is why most of us lease.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Nissan IDS concept shows Next Gen Leaf with 60kwh

Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:33 am

60 kwh in a package roughly 30-40% larger than the original is pretty impressive (guessing by pix on size differences. could be 50-60% larger)

but IDS is a SUV/CUV right? not so much LEAF II. with a 60 kwh option, an SUV/mini van is a no brainer I would think. the product shown looks more like what infiniti would be putting out more than Nissan but either way, when the tide rises...
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: Nissan IDS concept shows Next Gen Leaf with 60kwh

Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:53 am

Inside EVs claims the 60kWh battery "fits in exactly the same package as today’s 30 kWh Nissan LEAF battery pack"

http://insideevs.com/nissan-ids-concept-future-nissan-leaf-drag-report/
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Nubo
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Re: Nissan IDS concept shows Next Gen Leaf with 60kwh

Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:18 am

Imagine the public perception of EVs, and not to mention brand recognition and goodwill, if the new Nissan pack were backwards-compatible. If there's anything that could fix the raw deal some early-adopters got, it's this.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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evnow
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Re: Nissan IDS concept shows Next Gen Leaf with 60kwh

Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:40 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:60 kwh in a package roughly 30-40% larger than the original is pretty impressive (guessing by pix on size differences. could be 50-60% larger)

No - it is almost the same size as the current battery.

but IDS is a SUV/CUV right? not so much LEAF II. with a 60 kwh option, an SUV/mini van is a no brainer I would think. the product shown looks more like what infiniti would be putting out more than Nissan but either way, when the tide rises...

No - it is just a hatch. Are you confusing this with Gripz ?
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