Philipr144
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:19 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jul 2017
Location: Bakersfield Ca

Just got leaf spy, I have a question

Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:25 am

I just installed leaf spy and I have a cell, number 75 that is far more discharged then the others. I have 11 capacity bars on my leaf and almost 67k miles. I'm pretty fortunate. I was hoping some one can help explain if my 11 bars is because of this low cell pack. 4.075 is my low and 4.105 is my highest cell. It seems like I may have alot more energy if my cells were balanced. Is it possible to balance this pack? Is it even a cause for concern? It's my understanding that vlbw will trigger when your lowest cell hits a certain threshold. If I balanced my pack wouldn't that bring up my overall capacity since your only as strong as your weakest link? Thanks in advance.
2011 Leaf 76% SOH 212Gids 50ah 66.3k miles 10 bar

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7374
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Just got leaf spy, I have a question

Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:26 am

Unless the pack was manufactured with one or more bad cells, the Leaf packs tend to lose capacity among the cells fairly evenly. The most likely reason for that low cell is simple imbalance. Charge the pack fully, until all the charging lights shut off, then drive it to bring it back below 90% before you let it sit again. repeat a few times, preferably with L-1 (longer charge/balance times) and hopefully the low cell will equalize.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Philipr144
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:19 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jul 2017
Location: Bakersfield Ca

Re: Just got leaf spy, I have a question

Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:35 am

Hello, thanks for your reply. I have done that a few times attempting to balance the cells. Yesterday i drove it till 2kw was left in the pack hoping that would help balance it, i lost another bar while charging. lol That did not work! Now its a 10 bar leaf.

Warranty doesn't cover defects on the 2011 does it?
2011 Leaf 76% SOH 212Gids 50ah 66.3k miles 10 bar

mnl
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:00 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jul 2017
Location: Japan

Re: Just got leaf spy, I have a question

Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:05 pm

Philipr144 wrote:Warranty doesn't cover defects on the 2011 does it?


my understanding is that the increase in warranty was applied to the older 2011-12 models as well, so 8 years/100k mi in the US. if you get to 8 bars before then, you should be good for a replacement

Philipr144
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:19 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jul 2017
Location: Bakersfield Ca

Re: Just got leaf spy, I have a question

Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:10 pm

Well either way life goes on and I'm going to keep driving the car like normal. I just hope if that one low cell fails me that it's covered but I guess if it's not I could figure out which one cell 74 and 75 are and just replace that part of the pack. I wish I could balance the pack some way my self. I was attempting to bottom balance when I ran it low but that back tired and those cells are still low. I suspect there is something wrong with them.
2011 Leaf 76% SOH 212Gids 50ah 66.3k miles 10 bar

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7257
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Just got leaf spy, I have a question

Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:59 pm

mnl wrote:
Philipr144 wrote:Warranty doesn't cover defects on the 2011 does it?


my understanding is that the increase in warranty was applied to the older 2011-12 models as well, so 8 years/100k mi in the US. if you get to 8 bars before then, you should be good for a replacement

mnl: I don't know what you're talking about.

Leaf, including the 2011 model year has ALWAYS had an 8 year/100K mile defects warranty on the HV battery but it has NEVER covered "gradual capacity loss". This is listed in https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/te ... ooklet.pdf.

'11 and '12 Leaf did not come with ANY (gradual) capacity loss warranty. It wasn't until the Klee class action suit settlement reared its head did all '11 thru '15 Leafs receive a 5 year/60K capacity warranty: if you're down to 8 bars within 5 years/60K miles, the battery will be "repaired" or replaced: viewtopic.php?t=13192.

To tell any '11 or '12 (or any '11 thru '15) Leaf owner that they have 8 years/100K miles to get down to 8 bars is flat out wrong.

(30 kWh pack Leafs (e.g. '16 SV and SL, '16 "S 30" but NOT the original 24 kWh '16; all '17 Leafs) have an 8 year/100K capacity warranty.)

OP, if you have a weak cell, sometimes they have been replaced for free as part of the 8 year/100K defects warranty. Example: viewtopic.php?p=457964#p457964 then viewtopic.php?p=458180#p458180. Google for site:mynissanleaf.com cvli for more threads along these lines.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

mnl
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:00 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jul 2017
Location: Japan

Re: Just got leaf spy, I have a question

Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:49 am

cwerdna wrote:mnl: I don't know what you're talking about.


thanks for that clarification and please accept my apologies, didn't mean to mislead anyone. as you can tell from my post count, i'm new here as well and will hopefully be picking up a Japanese 2011 Leaf tomorrow. it has been overwhelming to sort through all of this information and obviously i was mistaken. the warranty for the battery here is 5 years/100,000km which i thought was a bummer until you sorted out for us that it is actually basically the same in the US as well.

Philipr144
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:19 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jul 2017
Location: Bakersfield Ca

Re: Just got leaf spy, I have a question

Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:09 am

cwerdna wrote:
mnl wrote:
Philipr144 wrote:Warranty doesn't cover defects on the 2011 does it?


my understanding is that the increase in warranty was applied to the older 2011-12 models as well, so 8 years/100k mi in the US. if you get to 8 bars before then, you should be good for a replacement

mnl: I don't know what you're talking about.

Leaf, including the 2011 model year has ALWAYS had an 8 year/100K mile defects warranty on the HV battery but it has NEVER covered "gradual capacity loss". This is listed in https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/te ... ooklet.pdf.

'11 and '12 Leaf did not come with ANY (gradual) capacity loss warranty. It wasn't until the Klee class action suit settlement reared its head did all '11 thru '15 Leafs receive a 5 year/60K capacity warranty: if you're down to 8 bars within 5 years/60K miles, the battery will be "repaired" or replaced: viewtopic.php?t=13192.

To tell any '11 or '12 (or any '11 thru '15) Leaf owner that they have 8 years/100K miles to get down to 8 bars is flat out wrong.

(30 kWh pack Leafs (e.g. '16 SV and SL, '16 "S 30" but NOT the original 24 kWh '16; all '17 Leafs) have an 8 year/100K capacity warranty.)

OP, if you have a weak cell, sometimes they have been replaced for free as part of the 8 year/100K defects warranty. Example: viewtopic.php?p=457964#p457964 then viewtopic.php?p=458180#p458180. Google for site:mynissanleaf.com cvli for more threads along these lines.



I found this information tonight actually. Thank you though. I will check it all out tomorrow since going to church is usuallu a long enough trip to deplete my battery.

From what I had read it seems my cells are far out of balance but maybe not defective. I will make another attempt at bottom balancing them. I will try to run it to .5kw-ish and may be by then when I charge up those weaker cells will come up in voltage as well. Not sure if this will work but I might as well try it. At the very least I can take reading from the depleted cells to see how far the min and max voltages are.

I noticed at low SOC the battery gets hot. Is that normal?
2011 Leaf 76% SOH 212Gids 50ah 66.3k miles 10 bar

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7257
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Just got leaf spy, I have a question

Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:56 am

Re: imbalance, I'm told by Turbo3, author of Leaf Spy (in person) that he looks at the imbalance to tell how close the battery is to dead. IIRC, he said when you're really low, the imbalance can go into the hundreds of milliVolts. He lives just a few miles from me and has borrowed my '13 Leaf do to '13+ specific some development/testing work once. I've sometimes talked to him at local Leaf meetings/EVents.

I haven't personally taken my current or former Leaf to nearly dead w/Leaf Spy so I can't comment. I did have a scare on my former leased '13 Leaf but I didn't have Leaf Spy yet.

But again, if you have a bad cell, see the CVLI discussion for how to determine that.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Philipr144
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:19 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jul 2017
Location: Bakersfield Ca

Re: Just got leaf spy, I have a question

Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:58 am

cwerdna wrote:Re: imbalance, I'm told by Turbo3, author of Leaf Spy (in person) that he looks at the imbalance to tell how close the battery is to dead. IIRC, he said when you're really low, the imbalance can go into the hundreds of milliVolts.

I haven't personally taken my current or former Leaf to nearly dead w/Leaf Spy so I can't comment. I did have a scare on my former leased '13 Leaf but I didn't have Leaf Spy yet.

But again, if you have a bad cell, see the CVLI discussion for how to determine that.


Tomorrow I will check the cell differances at low voltage using leafspy to see if there is a cause for concern. I read about cvli but am not sure how that works with leafspy. Perhaps I need to do some more searching.
2011 Leaf 76% SOH 212Gids 50ah 66.3k miles 10 bar

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