WetEV
Posts: 2912
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Getting a Leaf, looking for advice between S and SV

Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:04 pm

instanoodles wrote:There is definitely some "We want an electric car" driving our decision. Even if a gas car is cheaper we are willing to spend more to move away from owning another gas car and since we drive so little they seem to fit perfectly.


If you drive more, you would save more on gasoline, and the electric might be enough cheaper to drive that it would make up the higher cost to buy.

Yet an electric is low fuss, low maintenance needs. It might cost more per km, and you might be very happy with it.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

instanoodles
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:08 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jan 2019
Location: Dartmouth, NS

Re: Getting a Leaf, looking for advice between S and SV

Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:28 am

WetEV wrote:
instanoodles wrote:There is definitely some "We want an electric car" driving our decision. Even if a gas car is cheaper we are willing to spend more to move away from owning another gas car and since we drive so little they seem to fit perfectly.


If you drive more, you would save more on gasoline, and the electric might be enough cheaper to drive that it would make up the higher cost to buy.

Yet an electric is low fuss, low maintenance needs. It might cost more per km, and you might be very happy with it.


My biggest is the low maintenance. I have always owned VW's because you can get all the factory tools you need (manual, scan tool) and there are lots of parts. Now that my back is screwed up there is always the debate between "I'm sure I can manage that job without too much pain" and paying someone to do the job. The problem is I am cheap, really cheap so what happens is I start the job and get half way through before I wished I paid someone to do it. The EV should help with that, low maintenance in general and very different so I don't have the knowledge or the tools to work on all of it.

I bet it sounds silly but I think I will be playing this battle with myself for along time. My wife was the one who wanted an EV so we do not burn gas and I though it was a nice idea. The low maintenance and some places have priority parking for EV's so I get to walk less were what hooked me on the idea.

instanoodles
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:08 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jan 2019
Location: Dartmouth, NS

Re: Getting a Leaf, looking for advice between S and SV

Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:30 am

RonDawg wrote:
Stanton wrote:I wouldn't even consider an S, if for no other reason than the heat pump.


I know in previous model years, Nissan Canada included a heat pump on all Leaf trim levels. But that does not appear to be the case for the 2019 and possibly the 2018 models.

For the OP's expected usage, I don't think the lack of a heat pump will be an issue, especially if there is charging available enroute or at the destination.

alozzy wrote:Also, your savings over a gas powered car aren't going to be all that much. I hate to say it, but you might get better value from a gas car....


I was thinking that perhaps the OP may be better off with a used PHEV like a Chevy Volt or a Toyota Prius Plug in/Prime for the occasional long trip.


Never looked at the Prius but I would have loved a Volt. However my wife would have said no, visibility is terrible in it and my wife is really short making it worse.

goldbrick
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Getting a Leaf, looking for advice between S and SV

Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:41 am

I have a 2017 S. I bought it for commuting and for lack of maintenance. I also have 2 VW's and do all my own maintenance on those and having the Leaf is a real blessing. It just goes and needs nothing.

I wish my car had a heat pump but I don't think I would pay for it. I'm cheap too and here in CO the only time I really need heat is when the temps are below freezing (32F). At that point, the heat pump is very inefficient so the normal resistive heater takes over. If the temps were in the 40's and 50's F the heat pump would be great but I find that I can get by fine without it.

IMO, a Leaf is perfect for short trips and if you don't need to drive it more than 50 miles without charging an S should be more than enough. I can do more than that with good planning and/or in the summer but most of my trips are less than that. I've though of getting a newer car but I'll probably keep the Leaf for as long as I'm driving. Unless I move or get a new job I think it will work for me until the wheels fall off.

joeriv
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:33 pm
Location: Fairfield County CT

Re: Getting a Leaf, looking for advice between S and SV

Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:30 pm

I’m on my second S and just do not see the need for higher trim levels considering that my driving needs are similar - stricly local. My 2017 S gives me an effective winter range, with heat, of about 80 miles round trip with the battery showing about 20% left - I don’t push it.
2017 Leaf S with QC, JUN mfg date

powersurge
Posts: 1335
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Getting a Leaf, looking for advice between S and SV

Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:47 pm

I keep on seeing this all the time with people "thinking" about getting an EV...

Here are my few LAWS of having EVs...

Do not get an EV if:

1) You drive very little. The real way to evaluate EVs is to determine your DOLLARS/ MILE. The EV's strength is just like when you buy a cordless drill. It is made to be used, and used often. If you do not use it much, the battery will deteriorate more quickly, and the "value" of the battery cost will be wasted.

2) You drive long distances, and expect the EV to operate just like a gas powered car. Which leads to...

3) The EV will be your only car.

4) You want to Keep cars for decades. The EV is a product that you want to ride hard and ride often. It is a fun today appliance, because you do not know when an expensive part (a low volume produced car) will go bad, and you will complain that the car screwed you.

5) Can only afford a cheap used old EV. The NEW EV is the young starlet at the ball, and does not age well.... Buying an OLD 2011-13 car is like a 20 year old marrying a well preserved 55 year old.... The next few years will be a downward roller coaster ride. You will not get the best years of the relationship.....

GET AN EV IF:

1) You drive 12K or more miles yearly, and are constantly commuting under 50 miles per trip daily.

2) Are willing to replace the battery when it gets weak because you like the low operating costs that the big expense (of the battery replacement) will give you.

3) Like to keep cars for the long run.... SO.... You buy a BRAND NEW one that you can get the best years of the vehicle. THEN you will be more willing to take a chance to roll the dice and try to keep it forever.... Even if it dies after 10-15 years, you got great value out of it since new...

That is what I am doing. I have a 2015 that I bought new. I have almost 60K miles on it, and the battery is still at 92% SOH. I am rolling the dice to see how long and how hard I can drive it.... If things go well, I will spend the money on the new battery because it has been giving me value since day one......

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Re: Getting a Leaf, looking for advice between S and SV

Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:50 pm

Do not get an EV if:

1) You drive very little. The real way to evaluate EVs is to determine your DOLLARS/ MILE. The EV's strength is just like when you buy a cordless drill. It is made to be used, and used often. If you do not use it much, the battery will deteriorate more quickly, and the "value" of the battery cost will be wasted.


<Sigh>

First, many people want to drive an EV for reasons other than cost per mile. Until now, that was probably most of us.

Second, neither a Leaf nor a cordless drill will deteriorate if stored with a charge somewhere the middle of the range. I put less than 20,000 miles on my 2013 Leaf over five years, and turned it in with 12 bars / 87% SOH.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RonDawg
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
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Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Getting a Leaf, looking for advice between S and SV

Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:48 pm

powersurge wrote:Do not get an EV if:

1) You drive very little. The real way to evaluate EVs is to determine your DOLLARS/ MILE. The EV's strength is just like when you buy a cordless drill. It is made to be used, and used often. If you do not use it much, the battery will deteriorate more quickly, and the "value" of the battery cost will be wasted.

2) You drive long distances, and expect the EV to operate just like a gas powered car. Which leads to...

3) The EV will be your only car.

4) You want to Keep cars for decades. The EV is a product that you want to ride hard and ride often. It is a fun today appliance, because you do not know when an expensive part (a low volume produced car) will go bad, and you will complain that the car screwed you.

5) Can only afford a cheap used old EV. The NEW EV is the young starlet at the ball, and does not age well.... Buying an OLD 2011-13 car is like a 20 year old marrying a well preserved 55 year old.... The next few years will be a downward roller coaster ride. You will not get the best years of the relationship.....



1. I VERY much disagree. An ICEV is extremely inefficient, and quite polluting, when driven for very short distances from a cold start up. The catalytic converter has not had time to warm up, and the wear during this time is accelerated as the oils have not had time to warm up and fully circulate. That's why car manufacturers specify more frequent oil changes in such conditions. The person who lives very close to work, or only needs a car to get to the train station a few miles away, or is retired and just needs a car for things like grocery shopping, is a great candidate for an EV.

2. Well, if you have the budget for a Tesla Model 3 with the Long Range (300 mile) battery, and there's good charging infrastructure (primarily Tesla's) between you and your destination...

3. If you live in an urban area with good access to car sharing/rental, or you can easily borrow someone else's car, that' s not an issue. Although I have an ICEV backup, I could easily live on just my EV; I actually have to force myself to drive the ICEV once a month for at least 50 miles to keep the car in good working order. Now if you're something like a volunteer firefighter who may have to respond to a call at a moment's notice, a pure EV (even a Tesla) may not be a good choice if that will be your only car, due to the possibility of being called out and not having enough charge on the battery to make it to the call. But that's not going to be the majority of situations.

4. There's no reason why you can't keep an EV running for a long time. There are people out there with Gen 1 (based on the Gen 2 body) Toyota RAV4 EV's, Ford Ranger EV's, and Chevy S-10 EV's (that use a GM EV1 powertrain) still running. EV1's I'm sure would be in that list had GM not taken them all back and destroyed all but a handful. BTW almost nobody keeps a car for decades in the US. The average car age in the US is 11.4 years old, and the average new car buyer keeps his/her new car before selling/trading it in is just under 6 years, according to AutoTrader https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping ... ast-240725

5. Again it all depends on your needs. If you only need to drive 10 miles one way to work, there's no reason why you can't get a gently used one and have someone else take the hit for depreciation, no different than a used ICEV.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

RonDawg
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Getting a Leaf, looking for advice between S and SV

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:00 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
I know in previous model years, Nissan Canada included a heat pump on all Leaf trim levels. But that does not appear to be the case for the 2019 and possibly the 2018 models.


Are you sure that previous Leaf S cars sold in Canada had heat pumps?? I've never seen mention of that before this.


I thought I saw it a few years ago on the Nissan Canada website, but of course I don't have access to the specs now.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12200
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Getting a Leaf, looking for advice between S and SV

Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 pm

I'm inclined to doubt it. The S was designed as a more stripped model, and the heat pump deletion was about half of the cost savings for Nissan, I'd bet. If they'd offered it in Canada they likely would have offered it in Europe as well.

Can anyone here confirm or disprove this...?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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