Is your Leaf your only car?

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Joe

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Messages
6
Hi folks, I have a 1993 BMW 325i that is pretty high mileage and starting to have things go wrong. I'm going to replace it soon and the leaf caught my eye. My concerns are mainly range related, but I have some other questions too. Does anyone use it as their only car? How long is the longest trip you have taken with your Leaf? Other than not having to pay for gas, what other advantages does the Leaf have over a normal car? Any problems with power outages from weather affecting charging? Do you charge your Leaf at work? How is overall quality? Are the parts expensive?

I would be doing mostly city driving, where the Leaf would be most likely to shine, but occasionally I have to travel some pretty far distances on highways. Owning two cars is not an option due to parking constraints. The only other car I was looking at was a newer BMW M3. I found a couple used ones that would be similar in price to a Leaf. Obviously, you can't really compare the two, but that's what I'm torn between. My 325i gets decent mileage at 30 mpg so I don't necessarily need to get a more efficient car, but it would be nice.
 
Joe said:
Hi folks, I have a 1993 BMW 325i that is pretty high mileage and starting to have things go wrong. I'm going to replace it soon and the leaf caught my eye. My concerns are mainly range related, but I have some other questions too. Does anyone use it as their only car? How long is the longest trip you have taken with your Leaf? Other than not having to pay for gas, what other advantages does the Leaf have over a normal car? Any problems with power outages from weather affecting charging? Do you charge your Leaf at work? How is overall quality? Are the parts expensive?

I would be doing mostly city driving, where the Leaf would be most likely to shine, but occasionally I have to travel some pretty far distances on highways. Owning two cars is not an option due to parking constraints. The only other car I was looking at was a newer BMW M3. I found a couple used ones that would be similar in price to a Leaf. Obviously, you can't really compare the two, but that's what I'm torn between. My 325i gets decent mileage at 30 mpg so I don't necessarily need to get a more efficient car, but it would be nice.
If you have an Android or iPhone, BMW makes an app that you can download to see if your driving habits favor an electric car. Search for "BMW EVolve" at the app store or Android Market. Its free.
 
KeiJidosha said:
Joe said:
Hi folks, I have a 1993 BMW 325i that is pretty high mileage and starting to have things go wrong. I'm going to replace it soon and the leaf caught my eye. My concerns are mainly range related, but I have some other questions too. Does anyone use it as their only car? How long is the longest trip you have taken with your Leaf? Other than not having to pay for gas, what other advantages does the Leaf have over a normal car? Any problems with power outages from weather affecting charging? Do you charge your Leaf at work? How is overall quality? Are the parts expensive?

I would be doing mostly city driving, where the Leaf would be most likely to shine, but occasionally I have to travel some pretty far distances on highways. Owning two cars is not an option due to parking constraints. The only other car I was looking at was a newer BMW M3. I found a couple used ones that would be similar in price to a Leaf. Obviously, you can't really compare the two, but that's what I'm torn between. My 325i gets decent mileage at 30 mpg so I don't necessarily need to get a more efficient car, but it would be nice.
If you have an Android or iPhone, BMW makes an app that you can download to see if your driving habits favor an electric car. Search for "BMW EVolve" at the app store or Android Market. Its free.

Thanks and that sounds great, but I don't have a smart phone at the moment.
 
We are a family with multiple cars, one of which is the LEAF. So it is fairly easy for us to simply drive the car that best fits the requirements of each trip. We like the fact that the LEAF is mechanically simpler than a car with a gasoline engine and that it offers the most electric driving range of any affordable car on the market today. To us, it feels like a luxury car.

In your case, it sounds like the LEAF would work well for most of your driving, but probably not for the longer highway trips. With the LEAF as your only car, your highway trips would require renting a vehicle or trading cars with a friend or family member. Depending on your situation, that might or might not make sense.

The Chevy Volt or the upcoming Plug-in Prius could also be worthy of your consideration. The Volt in particular might allow you to do most of your city driving on electricity, while still supporting your highway trips.

Whatever you choose to do, I hope you will try to do better than 30 mpg. Granted, you could do far worse, but you could probably also do much better and still meet your driving requirements. This is an opportunity to make a choice for the good of our national security and our environment. We who have the means to buy these cars can lead by example.
 
Joe said:
I would be doing mostly city driving, where the Leaf would be most likely to shine, but occasionally I have to travel some pretty far distances on highways.
Need more than that. How often and how far are these "far distance" trips? Would a rental car or train serve in those cases? Do any of your destinations have charging available now, or might they in the future? If we knew what city you were in, you could also get better responses.
 
davewill said:
Joe said:
I would be doing mostly city driving, where the Leaf would be most likely to shine, but occasionally I have to travel some pretty far distances on highways.
Need more than that. How often and how far are these "far distance" trips? Would a rental car or train serve in those cases? Do any of your destinations have charging available now, or might they in the future? If we knew what city you were in, you could also get better responses.

I live in central NJ near Newark. Most of my driving is local driving to and from work. An EV should be fine for this. I do have to occasionally drive down to the Cape May area or as far north as NY for my job. The company reimburses me for the gas for these trips, so the cost of doing it in either a gas car or an EV would be the same.This is the only kind of driving I do where I don't think an EV would really work, but maybe they're better than I think.
 
One option for your occasional longer drives would be to rent or borrow a car. If the LEAF would meet most of your routine needs, it might make sense to just rent a car for the longer drives, if the need is fairly infrequent.

I know of two very active people for whom the LEAF is their only car. They are active also on this forum, so they might choose to chime in here.

Having driven my LEAF for about 3400 miles in 4.5 months, I can answer some of your other questions.

I haven't had any problems with power outages affecting my ability to charge here in Southern California. My longest drive on a single charge has been about 85 miles total, but you'll find accounts on this forum from people who have driven about double that mileage by including charging stops of several hours in their trip. At the public Level 2 charging stations, you will add about a mile of range for every 5 minutes of charging, so 5 hours would get you an extra 60 miles.

As far as advantages over gasoline ("ICE") cars, the main ones are that you will be driving using domestic energy that pollutes less than gasoline, both at your tailpipe and considering the entire energy production and transport cycles for electricity and gasoline, and you'll be improving your local environment while sending less money to world regimes that don't like the USA. If you charge over night, you'll leave the house with a full charge every day, and of course, you'll never have to go to a gas station again, unless you need air in your tires. The car is very quiet, allowing you to carry on conversations easily, and it encourages you to feel relaxed and calm as you drive. On the other hand, since you like BMWs, you may also like the instant, high torque nature of the drivetrain and the low center of gravity of the LEAF for spirited driving. I don't charge at work, but that would be a real plus if you can do it. It doesn't sound like you have solar power on your home, but having solar power and an electric car makes for a great fit, for reasons I won't take space for here.

Nobody that I've heard of has had to get parts replaced, except for fender benders, so we don't know about parts costs. The big question mark, though, is about the replacement costs of battery modules. But the battery warranty is 8 years, 100,000 miles, though the specifics of what qualifies as a battery failure haven't been spelled out by Nissan, beyond saying that "gradual loss" of charging capacity isn't covered.

Overall quality is a matter of opinion. Everyone that I've spoken with or read on this forum agrees that the quality of the "carpet" that Nissan uses barely deserves the name "carpet". It reminds me of flocked wallpaper or mouse fur. So floor mats are a must. The paint is good looking, but rather thin and easily chipped if you're not careful around the car. That said, though, I don't have any road chips and only one chip that I caused myself by being careless. Aside from that, though, I find the quality to be quite good, keeping in mind that Nissan had to go for lighter weight and lower cost in the body and materials to keep weight and overall vehicle cost down in light of the cost and weight of the main batteries. The car is not a luxury car by any means. Aside from the extensive electronic displays and the presence of such features as nav, rear view camera, bluetooth phone and audio, XM radio and traffic, Homelink transmitters, and quite a few other features, the car is a mid grade family sedan. Others will call it an econobox and there are threads on this forum where people have taken the car apart and were not impressed with the build quality or the materials. But from the standpoint of a regular daily driver who doesn't intend to tear into the car, I find the quality quite good and I enjoy driving it every day.

I hope that you continue to consider a LEAF seriously.
 
Every month I take a trip around 1000 - 1500 miles within few days so Leaf is not an option. I hope that one day that will be possible with extended battery range, quick charge possibility. Right now I will use it as work commuter. I will still keep ICE for long trips.
 
Boomer23 , thanks, that's very helpful and answered a lot of my questions. I can definitely charge my car at work when I'm at the office. The only question mark would be if I'm at a jobsite, but I might be able to use one of our diesel generators that we run our equipment from. My boss is pretty good about stuff like that.

How is the overall road feel? Is it responsive to emergency handling at highway speed?
 
Joe said:
I live in central NJ near Newark. Most of my driving is local driving to and from work. An EV should be fine for this. I do have to occasionally drive down to the Cape May area or as far north as NY for my job.
The one-way distance from Newark to Cape May is about 150 miles, or about double what you'd want to attempt on a single charge in a LEAF. Given some DC Fast Chargers at strategic locations, you could do it. But the infrastructure isn't there yet.

Given that those long drives are for company business, could the company provide a loaner car or a rental car? Or is it considered a requirement for your position to own a car capable of long distances?
 
Boomer23 said:
One option for your occasional longer drives would be to rent or borrow a car. If the LEAF would meet most of your routine needs, it might make sense to just rent a car for the longer drives, if the need is fairly infrequent.

I know of two very active people for whom the LEAF is their only car. They are active also on this forum, so they might choose to chime in here.

Having driven my LEAF for about 3400 miles in 4.5 months, I can answer some of your other questions.

I haven't had any problems with power outages affecting my ability to charge here in Southern California. My longest drive on a single charge has been about 85 miles total, but you'll find accounts on this forum from people who have driven about double that mileage by including charging stops of several hours in their trip. At the public Level 2 charging stations, you will add about a mile of range for every 5 minutes of charging, so 5 hours would get you an extra 60 miles.

As far as advantages over gasoline ("ICE") cars, the main ones are that you will be driving using domestic energy that pollutes less than gasoline, both at your tailpipe and considering the entire energy production and transport cycles for electricity and gasoline, and you'll be improving your local environment while sending less money to world regimes that don't like the USA. If you charge over night, you'll leave the house with a full charge every day, and of course, you'll never have to go to a gas station again, unless you need air in your tires. The car is very quiet, allowing you to carry on conversations easily, and it encourages you to feel relaxed and calm as you drive. On the other hand, since you like BMWs, you may also like the instant, high torque nature of the drivetrain and the low center of gravity of the LEAF for spirited driving. I don't charge at work, but that would be a real plus if you can do it. It doesn't sound like you have solar power on your home, but having solar power and an electric car makes for a great fit, for reasons I won't take space for here.

Nobody that I've heard of has had to get parts replaced, except for fender benders, so we don't know about parts costs. The big question mark, though, is about the replacement costs of battery modules. But the battery warranty is 8 years, 100,000 miles, though the specifics of what qualifies as a battery failure haven't been spelled out by Nissan, beyond saying that "gradual loss" of charging capacity isn't covered.

Overall quality is a matter of opinion. Everyone that I've spoken with or read on this forum agrees that the quality of the "carpet" that Nissan uses barely deserves the name "carpet". It reminds me of flocked wallpaper or mouse fur. So floor mats are a must. The paint is good looking, but rather thin and easily chipped if you're not careful around the car. That said, though, I don't have any road chips and only one chip that I caused myself by being careless. Aside from that, though, I find the quality to be quite good, keeping in mind that Nissan had to go for lighter weight and lower cost in the body and materials to keep weight and overall vehicle cost down in light of the cost and weight of the main batteries. The car is not a luxury car by any means. Aside from the extensive electronic displays and the presence of such features as nav, rear view camera, bluetooth phone and audio, XM radio and traffic, Homelink transmitters, and quite a few other features, the car is a mid grade family sedan. Others will call it an econobox and there are threads on this forum where people have taken the car apart and were not impressed with the build quality or the materials. But from the standpoint of a regular daily driver who doesn't intend to tear into the car, I find the quality quite good and I enjoy driving it every day.

I hope that you continue to consider a LEAF seriously.

probably one of the most level and fair assessments of the car so far, bravo Boomer! I would add that it has achieved the highest crash test rating given. Another advantage you will notice is that it costs roughly 1/10 per mile to drive than a comparable gas car, at least that is what I'm seeing here in Seattle. It's the most interesting and fun to drive car I've ever owned. If you can rent or barrow for your company trips, I'd go for it! Quick DC fast charging (25 minutes) is on it's way, which may even make your longer trips doable eventually. I've gone over 150 miles in a day, charging in between, about 73 miles in one stretch with enough charge to go another 10-15.

g
 
Joe said:
Boomer23 , thanks, that's very helpful and answered a lot of my questions. I can definitely charge my car at work when I'm at the office. The only question mark would be if I'm at a jobsite, but I might be able to use one of our diesel generators that we run our equipment from. My boss is pretty good about stuff like that.

How is the overall road feel? Is it responsive to emergency handling at highway speed?

That sounds good, Joe. Also, for the reasonable cost of a few hundred dollars, you can send your free Nissan included charging cable assembly to be upgraded to 220/240V for full Level 2 charging at job sites that have that level of power.

Road feel and emergency handling are good, but most people agree that steering feel is minimal and you'll feel quite a difference from your BMW. My last car was a 2008 328i coupe sport manual, so I know the differences that you'll feel. However, I haven't missed my beemer at all. The LEAF is so different, so new and so fascinating to work with, that I haven't looked back. The instant torque goes a long way towards making the car fun to drive. It is deceptive in that regard. The car really isn't that quick, with 0-60 in around 9.5 seconds, but it feels much quicker and you can leave most traffic behind at a stop light (unless they want to race and they know what they're doing with their car :lol: ). The low rolling resistance tires are pretty meaty and pretty good for that type of tire.

Since you've mentioned that you're in the northeast, pay close attention to the impact of cold temperatures. Battery range could be reduced in those conditions, though all 2012 and later LEAFs will have a cold weather package that should help. Also, while the A/C doesn't sap much battery energy, the heater does, hence the heated seats and steering wheel on the new LEAFs.
 
abasile said:
Joe said:
I live in central NJ near Newark. Most of my driving is local driving to and from work. An EV should be fine for this. I do have to occasionally drive down to the Cape May area or as far north as NY for my job.
The one-way distance from Newark to Cape May is about 150 miles, or about double what you'd want to attempt on a single charge in a LEAF. Given some DC Fast Chargers at strategic locations, you could do it. But the infrastructure isn't there yet.

Given that those long drives are for company business, could the company provide a loaner car or a rental car? Or is it considered a requirement for your position to own a car capable of long distances?

I could talk to them about it, but it is unlikely that they will agree at the moment. We aren't a very big company and all of our company trucks are in use almost every day.

You make a good point about the infrastructure. I'm starting to think it might be a better idea for me to wait on the Leaf until EVs are more popular and the infrastructure is in place to handle it. It's really a shame because for local driving, it is perfect.

The only other objection I might have to the Leaf is price. I can find some great used M3s and M5s for under $20K. I'm not discounting the Leaf yet, but for right now, I'm leaning towards going for the Bimmer. I appreciate the advice.
 
Does anyone use it as their only car?

Yes, the Leaf is our only vehicle. For the previous 2 years we were without a vehicle after our last car finally gave up! :D

How long is the longest trip you have taken with your Leaf?

In a single day? 130 miles. This was a trip about 65 miles away, we were at our destination for a while and was able to receive a full charge for the trip home later that evening.

Other than not having to pay for gas, what other advantages does the Leaf have over a normal car?

The money we spend on electricity stays in our country (and economy) instead of going to overseas oil producers. Maintenance is a lot cheaper than an ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle. It's nice driving a modern vehicle instead of those old gas things! :D

Any problems with power outages from weather affecting charging?

No problems in my area. If it was a concern, a cheap generator would resolve the issue.

Do you charge your Leaf at work?

No, but I do have access (and permission) to use a 120v outlet whenever I need to.

How is overall quality?

Fit and finish is awesome. I've never had a vehicle that has absolutely no squeaks from the plastic pieces moving around. Compares very favorable compared to my previous Subaru Impreza RS. I wish the Leaf had an HD radio or capability for an aftermarket stereo, but that's it.

Are the parts expensive?

The only things I've looked at are the optional accessories and a replacement portable EVSE. The prices on those are comparable to other vehicle OEM parts. Since everything else in the vehicle is still under the standard warranty it will be a few years before I have to pay for something myself.

I would be doing mostly city driving, where the Leaf would be most likely to shine, but occasionally I have to travel some pretty far distances on highways. Owning two cars is not an option due to parking constraints. The only other car I was looking at was a newer BMW M3. I found a couple used ones that would be similar in price to a Leaf. Obviously, you can't really compare the two, but that's what I'm torn between. My 325i gets decent mileage at 30 mpg so I don't necessarily need to get a more efficient car, but it would be nice.
If you have access to Zipcar where you live, using a vehicle from them would cover the occasional trip and still be cost effective since you aren't paying as much for fuel in your Leaf.

Personally, if you're on-the-fence, I would recommend waiting until you are sure you want one or at least until you need a new vehicle. If you phone has something like Google Tracks, you can plot your daily driving to see the distance traveled to help reassure yourself. The Nissan Leaf isn't for everyone, however it will definitely be here for when you want one! ;)
 
Joe said:
I would be doing mostly city driving, where the Leaf would be most likely to shine, but occasionally I have to travel some pretty far distances on highways. Owning two cars is not an option due to parking constraints. The only other car I was looking at was a newer BMW M3.
This is why God made Volts in addition to Leafs.
 
SanDust said:
Joe said:
I would be doing mostly city driving, where the Leaf would be most likely to shine, but occasionally I have to travel some pretty far distances on highways. Owning two cars is not an option due to parking constraints. The only other car I was looking at was a newer BMW M3.
This is why God made Volts in addition to Leafs.

Unfortunately, the cheapest Volt near me starts at $40K, and Leafs are $33,000 or so. I heard that these prices can be lowered though.

After doing some research, it looks like I could get a good E46 M3 for $15K, with E36s going for a little less. I was surprised because I thought they would be a lot more expensive than that. I don't know if I could get $15,000+ in fuel savings by getting a Volt or Leaf unless I own it for a very long time. Maintenance on a Leaf would probably be a lot less than on an M3 and might help make up the difference, but I generally do maintenance on my car myself anyway, so that isn't a big deal. I might even just put some more money in my 325i and drive it longer instead of getting a new car.

I would really like to get a Leaf or Volt at some point, but I just don't think I can justify it at that price with my current needs the way they are, especially when there's other stuff out there used for a lot less. Once the used market has some, I will probably get one.

I really appreciate the responses and I'll probably hang out here on the forums for a bit.
 
Short answer: No. We still have an ICE car and expect that we will for some time to come since we need it's capabilities too often to give it up for another electric-only vehicle...
 
Joe said:
How is the overall road feel?
I'd say "cushy". It's not quite as bad as a circa-80s econocars or a Cadillac of that same vintage; it's sufficient for my normal every day driving.

Joe said:
Is it responsive to emergency handling at highway speed?
I don't think the LEAF would shine in dealing with sudden steering or throttle input, whether mid-turn or, most importantly, in an emergency. The suspension has lots of travel. Its springs are on the soft side. It's under-damped, resulting in less-than-ideal control of body movement. The tires can use some more stick. (But, having such tires is the price of a different kind of performance: energy efficiency.) Given that, even the stability control and traction control might not keep me out of harm's way and shiny side up should a car pull out in front of me, or should someone cross the center line coming the other way, or should a dog bolt out into the street, or should that huge inflated inner tube fall out of the pick-up truck in front of me on the highway and come bouncing towards me in a toroidally random trajectory (had that happen to me once).

All in all, I'd say the LEAF is middle of the road among econocars as far as composure during an emergency maneuver. It's not stellar, but I feel it's competent enough to not make matter worse in an emergency maneuver. (Afterall, I did buy one!)
 
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