Pondering Acquisition

Newbie that doesn't own a LEAF (yet), looking for some feedback from the seasoned pros. Never felt EV's were ready for prime time however the folks who were in the home we are moving in to have a LEAF and are leaving their L2 charger installed in the garage. (a solar home with a rediculously low annual electric bill even with charging a EV!). I began questioning "what if"? So we test drove Saturday and WOW!! I was very, very, impressed! When I discovered I could get a pass for the HOV lane I nearly signed up on the spot. Very stoked...then the internal fight of intellect over emotion kicked in and I began my quest for information that led me to this site (which by the way is very informative...thank you to all for your valuable input!) However alas I am admittedly bummed...no surprise that the Nissan sales rep didn't mention that the 100 miles per charge only happen when the planets were aligned and while coasting down from the Sierra Nevada mountains. I will have a RT commute of 72 miles with some hills on the way home. We do have a 120 outlet in the back of the office and could trickle charge through the day and drive our other vehicles for any scheduled field activity. My assessment from what I have read here is the LEAF may not be a good option. Before I throw in the towel I was hoping to get some input. I don't want to drive under 10mph..I can do that in the "non-hov" lanes. It can get hot here but the winters are fairly mild. Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated!

Cheers

Why don't you give us the real departure and arrival point. It can make a huge difference with elevation, and east of Sacto has some of that.

el dorado hills to Natomis area (south of airport) which leads me to another question...stealing charging cables an issue for anyone? Looks like copper is in high demand for the low life's!

Thanks

With the uncertainty about what, if anything, Nissan plans to do about rapidly dropping battery capacity in hot areas, I would wait. The 2013 models will have a few known improvements, and might have some others Nissan is not disclosing in order to avoid cannibalizing current sales. It is also possible the price will drop once the Leaf is manufactured in Tennessee. Wouldn't rush into it at this point without good reason.

If you can charge at work, even at L1 rate, this would be a piece of cake! The only real issues showing up with the Leaf so far have been in areas of extreme heat, namely Phoenix AZ, where they bake cookies on their dashboard, otherwise, it has turned out to be a very good performing car. The real range you can expect is more like 75 miles on a charge, 60 if you really gun it, but learning how to predict range comes pretty quick, especially once you get used to your commute, you learn how much wiggle room you have.

NewCalifornian said:

el dorado hills to Natomis area (south of airport) which leads me to another question...stealing charging cables an issue for anyone? Looks like copper is in high demand for the low life's!

Thanks

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Well... I get 42 miles, plus 700 feet elevation difference. The battery will lose capacity, and the fact that Sacto can sit at 100F degrees in the summer, that capacity loss might come on quicker than you like, making the car completely unusable for your trip.

If you could somehow get ANY charging done at work, I'd say go for it. Otherwise, no.

NewCalifornian said:

Newbie that doesn't own a LEAF (yet), looking for some feedback from the seasoned pros. Never felt EV's were ready for prime time however the folks who were in the home we are moving in to have a LEAF and are leaving their L2 charger installed in the garage. (a solar home with a rediculously low annual electric bill even with charging a EV!). I began questioning "what if"? So we test drove Saturday and WOW!! I was very, very, impressed! When I discovered I could get a pass for the HOV lane I nearly signed up on the spot. Very stoked...then the internal fight of intellect over emotion kicked in and I began my quest for information that led me to this site (which by the way is very informative...thank you to all for your valuable input!) However alas I am admittedly bummed...no surprise that the Nissan sales rep didn't mention that the 100 miles per charge only happen when the planets were aligned and while coasting down from the Sierra Nevada mountains. I will have a RT commute of 72 miles with some hills on the way home. We do have a 120 outlet in the back of the office and could trickle charge through the day and drive our other vehicles for any scheduled field activity. My assessment from what I have read here is the LEAF may not be a good option. Before I throw in the towel I was hoping to get some input. I don't want to drive under 10mph..I can do that in the "non-hov" lanes. It can get hot here but the winters are fairly mild. Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated!

Cheers

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My daily commute is around 55 miles (depending on what I do for lunch), and I can make that on a single 80% charge. Most of the trip is 45-55MPH. If I took the highway route, tt would have a major impact on my range and I wouldn't be able to make the round trip at 80%. I trickle charge at home and have an outlet at work to trickle charge from if I need to. Trickle charging will get me about 5 miles per hour of charging. The LEAF is working out very well for me. I think it will do even better if I can get a Level 2 charger installed at work and at home.

TonyWilliams said:

If you could somehow get ANY charging done at work, I'd say go for it. Otherwise, no.

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+1

While possible, you likely wouldn't feel comfortable doing this commute without charging at work. Even if it was a few hours from a regular outlet. Could you try driving this route in a dealer demo?

If you can charge at work, even at L1 rate, this would be a piece of cake!

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My thoughts too. If you can trickle charge even for three hours at office, then this would be a piece of cake even under worst of conditions and allowing some battery degradation for your area. But then you have to absolutely trickle charge, otherwise it might get difficult.

For someone like you with a long commute and a charing option at work, Leaf would be a great asset saving you a ton of money of gasoline. Easily $250+ per month

I would vote for waiting for model year 2013 if you're not in a hurry, even though the MY12 can work for you with the plug in at work. If you're going to be pushing it with your distance and will require a plug in at work for added margin, then any capacity loss, even if not in year 1, but in year 2 or 3, can quickly turn things around and make things too tight for comfort for you a few years down the road. Maybe MY13 will have something extra that can help give you a little more margin.

NewCalifornian said:

...We do have a 120 outlet in the back of the office and could trickle charge through the day and drive our other vehicles for any scheduled field activity.

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Yeah, if you can L1 charge during the day it should not be a problem. I get the impression that you both control this office? If not, you need to be really sure that you would have guaranteed access to the socket, that "management" of some sort isn't going to change their minds and disallow it at a later date, or that competition from other future EV drivers isn't going to come into play to potentially lock you out of charging.

NewCalifornian said:

We do have a 120 outlet in the back of the office and could trickle charge through the day

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NewCalifornian said:

el dorado hills to Natomis area (south of airport) which leads me to another question...stealing charging cables an issue for anyone?

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I've certainly seen posts by people worrying about stealing cables, but I don't remember seeing any report of someone actually losing one. The trickle charge cable that comes with the LEAF has a hole in the connector to the car where you can put in a (very small) padlock that effectively locks the connector to the car. That could be defeated with a bolt cutter, or the cable could be cut leaving the connector behind. But at least it would foil someone who just wanted to unplug the cable and walk off with it. You'll have to judge the level of security and threat at the back of your office.

Ray

Agree w/Stoaty's and Tony's comments re: high temps in Sacto and the uncertainty surrounding what Nissan will do about faster than normal capacity loss (namely the AZ and TX folks, for now).

As for EVSE's getting stolen, there's a story at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=211330#p2113300" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=209640#p209640" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (search for the words stolen). I might've heard of another case, not sure.

The capacity loss issue is solved by leasing.. like others mentioned make sure you have permanent access to that 120V socket, otherwise look into a Volt. Its possible the Volt can do that 42 mile trip on just electricity but you may have to be a bit gentle.. it also qualifies for the HOV pass.

^^^
Yep, re: leasing. Other vehicles that currently qualify for HOV stickers are at http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

The Plug-in Prius (aka PiP) has WAY less electric only range than the Volt (along w/62 mph EV speed limitation) but is cheaper than the Volt and has much better mileage in hybrid mode than the Volt's charge sustain mode. PiP doesn't require premium gas either.

As I mentioned before you guys are awesome! Thank you for your feedback! If I decide to pull the trigger I will definitely lease. I like the fact that the incentives are handled by Nissan and taken up front. This may solve the battery degradation concern...I could possibly hand off to one of my up and coming drivers in the family or upgrade to the latest and greatest offered at that time. I also see that some dealers are offering an addition $5000 incentive. May give me some additional negotiating power. surfingslovak your idea about asking the dealer to let me do a trial run is an excellent idea however I don't move in to the new place until next week. That or waiting until the 2013 model is where the emotional side starts to dominate..."I want it now!!!" mentality. Note to self: " deep breaths...patience"....they say that patience is a virtue...I have no idea since I don't have any! Thanks again for the feedback!

when in doubt; lease

you can make it no problem if you are willing to drive at a speed that will allow you to drive that far. for some reason, that is not as easy as it sounds. we have many here (of all places) who feel that its "rude" to drive under the MAXIMUM speed limit allowed by law. if you are one of those people, forget it. you will never make it.

now, if you have guarantees from your employer that 120 volt plug is available for your use, you have it made. you can get 4-5 miles per hour back from that plug. even at 70 mph, you can get to work. plug in, you will have enough to get home... might have to kick it down to 65 though

Actually, the folks who have a long commute and have the ability to charge at work, even on L1 are the ones that will benefit the maximum from the Leaf - the more you drive the more you save.

At 75 miles RT 5 days a week we are looking at 1600 miles per month, if you add weekend driving too. That would mean around 18 to 20k miles per year.

So remember to bargain for 15 miles per year on your lease.

Speed, cold, and battery degradation will be the key. You can make 72 mi RT with a new battery at 60-65 mph (at least that's what I've read here). Since I don't travel that far or fast I can't confirm. However, if you want to do 75 mph because of the carpool sticker, you'd better rethink things. Also, in the winter it will be difficult if you need to use the heater. There have been several threads discussing this. With $5k off, I'd take it and drive slow enough to make the trip as needed. Yup, L1 at work would make it simple, even in the winter/rain/snow/wind/-30% battery. However, make sure you REALLY can charge at work. Again, many threads discussing this issue as well, and it depends on the individual company.

Spend the weekend reading this forum and you will discover more about EV's than 99.9% of the population. Good luck.

Reddy

With all of the rumors about the 2013 model, the largest efficiency gains actually publicized is the heater. So when you drive in the winter, the 2013 heater will make the care more efficient (whereas the 2011/2012 heater eats your charge and could take off as much as 20 miles). Also, it will have a faster onboard charger, which will charge the LEAF twice as fast on L2 ONLY. Meaning, it won't make any difference when you are trickle charging at work on L1 - that will be the same with a 2011/2012/2013.

With the current incentives I would lease a 2012 with 15K+ miles per year (with your commute). Chances are once you get the LEAF you're going to want to drive it all the time and hardly ever use your other car unless going on long trips. As others have said, your commute is a snap with L1 at work on an 80% charge.. Once you get comfortable with the range you can probably make it on a 100% charge without L1, but for how long is the question (in terms of battery degradation - 1yr, 2yrs, 3yrs, etc.). It does get hot in Sac.

If I had to do it over again I probably would have leased, but then again, there's always going to be newer and better technology and the LEAF is a solid car as-is. Yes there's room for improvement but it does what it does very well. Since I bought, I plan on keeping it for at least 8 years. I have almost 10k miles on it and it's 8 months new and my commute is only 15 miles RT. I haven't noticed any battery degradation, possibly in part to the temperate climate of where I live. It is my wife and mine's everything car. We hardly ever use our other.