saywatt
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:43 am
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Leaf Number: 4701
Location: Issaquah, WA

Quick Charging

Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:04 am

The "perception" is that an EV can travel anywhere with quick charging along the way. This may not be the case. The LEAF manual recommends quick charging no more than once a day. The dealer on p/u day made sure to tell me the same thing.

So, what is the purpose of the network of quick chargers WA, OR, and CA are putting in along the I-5 corridor? A possible waste of fed tax money?

I made my purchase decision on other major factors so it won't bother me too much-more of an inconvenience than anything else.

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mwalsh
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Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Quick Charging

Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:33 am

saywatt wrote:The "perception" is that an EV can travel anywhere with quick charging along the way. This may not be the case. The LEAF manual recommends quick charging no more than once a day. The dealer on p/u day made sure to tell me the same thing.

So, what is the purpose of the network of quick chargers WA, OR, and CA are putting in along the I-5 corridor? A possible waste of fed tax money?

I made my purchase decision on other major factors so it won't bother me too much-more of an inconvenience than anything else.



I probably wouldn't QC my car more than once on any given day. Maybe twice at a pinch. And having just used a quick charger, I definitely don't feel they're a waste of money. I do, however, think they're overpriced.
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SteveInSeattle
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Re: Quick Charging

Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:36 am

Even if you could quick charge an infinite number of times a day, would you really drive a long trip having to stop EVERY HOUR for 30 minutes to charge? And what if there is a long line at the charger or junkies stole the copper wire and disabled it or.... QC Ports on the highway don't make any sense to me until the range of EVs goes to at least 300 miles.. so that we wouldn't have to stop any more often then an ICE car stops for gas. Fortunately there ventually will be EVs with this range so the infrastructure cost is not wasted, just premature.
2013 lease ended, purchased a red 2015 SL Premium from Ray Ishak at Magic Nissan. Good deal + rebates + $7500 tax credit + no sales tax = Leaf for Sentra money.

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TomT
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Re: Quick Charging

Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:50 am

Agreed. Even a real, honest, freeway range of 150 miles would work.

Four charges just to get to Vegas, for example, is simply unrealistic. One midway would be just fine.

SteveInSeattle wrote:Even if you could quick charge an infinite number of times a day, would you really drive a long trip having to stop EVERY HOUR for 30 minutes to charge? And what if there is a long line at the charger or junkies stole the copper wire and disabled it or.... QC Ports on the highway don't make any sense to me until the range of EVs goes to at least 300 miles.. so that we wouldn't have to stop any more often then an ICE car stops for gas. Fortunately there ventually will be EVs with this range so the infrastructure cost is not wasted, just premature.
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davewill
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Re: Quick Charging

Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:55 am

SteveInSeattle wrote:...QC Ports on the highway don't make any sense to me until the range of EVs goes to at least 300 miles.. so that we wouldn't have to stop any more often then an ICE car stops for gas. Fortunately there ventually will be EVs with this range so the infrastructure cost is not wasted, just premature.
I wouldn't drive more than one or two QCs away. I WOULD use it to do day trips for shopping or sightseeing in Orange County or LA. Drive up, QC once over coffee or shopping, drive around town doing whatever else I needed, QC again for the drive home. Sure, in a perfect world, there'd be L2 at all of my stops, and QC might not be needed, but the world isn't perfect...besides the point of all this is to build infrastructure for the future. The chicken and egg problem only gets solved by building both chickens and eggs at whatever rate we can manage. If you refuse to build because it's "premature" you never get there.
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DarkStar
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Leaf Number: 568
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
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Re: Quick Charging

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:10 am

saywatt wrote:The "perception" is that an EV can travel anywhere with quick charging along the way. This may not be the case. The LEAF manual recommends quick charging no more than once a day. The dealer on p/u day made sure to tell me the same thing.

So, what is the purpose of the network of quick chargers WA, OR, and CA are putting in along the I-5 corridor? A possible waste of fed tax money?

I made my purchase decision on other major factors so it won't bother me too much-more of an inconvenience than anything else.

Nissan just doesn't want you to DC Quick Charge multiple times a day, everyday.

Every time a battery is used, the chemistry changes just a little bit, causing degradation. Nissan's statement is to try to minimize cycles on the battery pack. If you wanted to take a trip for the weekend and quick charge 5 or 6 times once or twice a year, it wouldn't affect the battery over the long-term.
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GaslessInSeattle
Posts: 1566
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Leaf Number: 850

Re: Quick Charging

Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:09 pm

I would think the reason they are putting the charging stations so close together is for the same reason there are so many gas stations along the freeway, because people with different vehicles and starting points need fill ups at different intervals. The network isn't being built for the LEAF, but for a future array of EV vehicles with likely a much longer range. It's my understanding that even the Leaf can handle the occasional abuse of multiple fast charges in a day, it's really what you do every day that adds up. As soon as the range doubles, with cars like the Tesla S coming soon with a 300 mile range, stopping to charge for a half an hour every 4-5 hours will not be such a big deal and the wisdom of frequent stations to charge will become very apparent, IMHO.
g
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wsbca
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Re: Quick Charging

Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:01 pm

GaslessInSeattle wrote:cars like the Tesla S coming soon with a 300 mile range, stopping to charge for a half an hour every 4-5 hours will not be such a big deal and the wisdom of frequent stations to charge will become very apparent, IMHO.
g



I'm no physicist or EE but I think it's a pretty big stretch to assume that quick charging for 300 miles of range would still only take 30 minutes. Improvements in the energy density of batteries don't necessarily imply equally impressive improvements in charging speed, in fact I would not be surprised if the opposite turned out to be true (eg higher temps in the smaller/denser packaging) - you're still talking about transferring the same "amount of electricity" per mile of range - the laws of physics the motor and mass/shape of the car have to respect relative to gravity, friction and air resistance aren't going to change.
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garygid
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Leaf Number: 000855
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Re: Quick Charging

Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:10 pm

I forgot to look at the battery temperature gauge yesterday as I did the QC.

As soon as I can QC from a lower point, and Log the CAN busses,
I should be able to find the battery temperature value(s), and temp-bars.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
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GaslessInSeattle
Posts: 1566
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Leaf Number: 850

Re: Quick Charging

Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:15 pm

Yes good point, and still, as capacity increases, the convenience factor is bound to improve many fold due to far fewer stops. Even if larger capacity vehicles take longer than a half an hour to charge, a QC network will be very freeing. In reality though, the largest effect of the QC network may end up being psychological. As soon as you can answer the question of "how far can you go?" with "as far as you want!", the number one psycological hurdle for the public will have been surmounted.

From what i'm seeing with nearly 3,500 miles on the LEAF in just a few months, most of the challenge with this technology spreading is between the ears of the prospective driver.

g


wsbca wrote:
GaslessInSeattle wrote:cars like the Tesla S coming soon with a 300 mile range, stopping to charge for a half an hour every 4-5 hours will not be such a big deal and the wisdom of frequent stations to charge will become very apparent, IMHO.
g



I'm no physicist or EE but I think it's a pretty big stretch to assume that quick charging for 300 miles of range would still only take 30 minutes. Improvements in the energy density of batteries don't necessarily imply equally impressive improvements in charging speed, in fact I would not be surprised if the opposite turned out to be true (eg higher temps in the smaller/denser packaging) - you're still talking about transferring the same "amount of electricity" per mile of range - the laws of physics the motor and mass/shape of the car have to respect relative to gravity, friction and air resistance aren't going to change.
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