The Possibility of Charging the Battery from a Portable Gen.

I haven't seen this subject raised in the forum, so this might be of interest to you. I raised the subject of using a 700W portable generator to top up the LEAF battery in an emergency situation and this is the response I received from Nissan UK:
'We are not able to comment on the use of a specific generator but generally speaking the rate of charge is proportional to the charging current. The charging box on the Nissan Leaf will try and draw as much current as it can up to 13amps which could result in tripping out or damage to a generator not able to meet this current demand. Nissan only recommends using a recognized input from the grid through either a UK 13A standard socket or a Nissan specified fixed line. Any supply variation using a generator could cause unknown concerns resulting in damage to the vehicle and/or the generator and might invalidate the vehicle’s warranty.'
Remember that in the UK our standard supply sockets provide 230V, 13A (our L1), hence the reference to 13A, but the other points raised by Nissan are probably applicable to the US. Hope this is helpful.
Really appreciate the wealth of knowledge from this forum.
Regards from 'across the pond'. Bob

Interesting..... living in Florida I thought that in case of a hurricane
that I might get a genset in case of prolonged power outage.

Interesting, L1 charging on 230V doesn't look much different from L2 charging.

I wouldn't think a 700W generator would be enough. Does anyone know if there is a really low current option selectable via the pilot signal on the J1772 standard?

No EVSEs that I know of, L1 or L2, have user-adjustable "max-current" settings.

L1 EVSEs generally "offer" the car 12 amps, so a 1500 watt (continuous) 120v generator would be required, preferably with a "good" waveform.

For "minimum" charging, EVSEs could be made to limit the car to draw only 6 amps (720 watts), but a full charge would take about 40 hours, only about 2.5 miles per hour of charging. So, no manufacturer has offered that "feature".

L2 charging, (240v at 15 or 16 amps) requires a generator with about a 3.5 kW continuous rating.

i would be hesitant to use a 700 watt generator as well. granted it will take time for society to realize the value of an EV. but i think it will become a major "ah ha!!" moment for many and i predict a very large and fast proliferation of charging stations for all levels of charging and most will be private sector businesses (am guessing oil companies will be johnny on the spot as a way to replace revenue lost from us) who will be charging the appropriate fees for the conveniences they provide.

besides, around here (we do get weather every few years that blows our power out) the de facto standard for generators is the 2500 watt Honda

There has been previous discussions on this forum regarding generators to charge the LEAF. But blobm you are asking specifically about a very small 700w generator, right? My first concern would be regarding the quality of the inverter on a low end 700w generator. It's likely a modified sine wave product and I wonder if the LEAF could handle that. Many larger and higher quality generators have pure sine wave inverters, producing grid quality electric, with ample amps. The LEAF would have no problem with those generators.

Assuming that one is using the L1 "included" EVSE, a 700 watt generator will be VERY OVERLOADED by trying to charge the LEAF. It might burn out the generator, and could possibly even damage the LEAF.

A generator rated for AT LEAST 12 amps (1500 watts) CONTINUOUS is the smallest that should be used.

Consider yourself WARNED.

of course using a small generator to charge your Leaf is sort of backwards; the idea is to drive on "clean" energy (or as clean as the grid can be)... certainly using a small gasoline engine is the exact opposite of this...

I would suggest if you have a remote cabin, that doesn't have "grid power" perhaps consider PV panels? you can get a system with onsite storage (off grid), so that you could charge at night... Of course this is more money than a small generator, but it will be "clean" power.

Thank you. As usual, a lot of useful information from you all. Regards Bob.

mitch672 said:

of course using a small generator to charge your Leaf is sort of backwards; the idea is to drive on "clean" energy (or as clean as the grid can be)... certainly using a small gasoline engine is the exact opposite of this...

I would suggest if you have a remote cabin, that doesn't have "grid power" perhaps consider PV panels? you can get a system with onsite storage (off grid), so that you could charge at night... Of course this is more money than a small generator, but it will be "clean" power.

Click to expand...

well now that depends on your "other" options. there is a VERY valid reason why the Volt chooses a small generator for extended range EV operation; these small generators are very efficient. if fossil fuels for power is your only options, a small generator is hard to beat.

DaveinOlyWA said:

mitch672 said:

of course using a small generator to charge your Leaf is sort of backwards; the idea is to drive on "clean" energy (or as clean as the grid can be)... certainly using a small gasoline engine is the exact opposite of this...

I would suggest if you have a remote cabin, that doesn't have "grid power" perhaps consider PV panels? you can get a system with onsite storage (off grid), so that you could charge at night... Of course this is more money than a small generator, but it will be "clean" power.

Click to expand...

well now that depends on your "other" options. there is a VERY valid reason why the Volt chooses a small generator for extended range EV operation; these small generators are very efficient. if fossil fuels for power is your only options, a small generator is hard to beat.

Click to expand...

Actually the Volt's on-board generator is a water cooled 55 kW (74 hp) setup. For a consumer generator, that's huge! Most consumer generators (those Honda's you see) are like 3000W - 6000W. The OP is talking about 700W.

indyflick said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

mitch672 said:

of course using a small generator to charge your Leaf is sort of backwards; the idea is to drive on "clean" energy (or as clean as the grid can be)... certainly using a small gasoline engine is the exact opposite of this...

I would suggest if you have a remote cabin, that doesn't have "grid power" perhaps consider PV panels? you can get a system with onsite storage (off grid), so that you could charge at night... Of course this is more money than a small generator, but it will be "clean" power.

Click to expand...

well now that depends on your "other" options. there is a VERY valid reason why the Volt chooses a small generator for extended range EV operation; these small generators are very efficient. if fossil fuels for power is your only options, a small generator is hard to beat.

Click to expand...

Actually the Volt's on-board generator is a water cooled 55 kW (74 hp) setup. For a consumer generator, that's huge! Most consumer generators (those Honda's you see) are like 3000W - 6000W. The OP is talking about 700W.

Click to expand...

still does not change the fact that dedicated generators are far more efficient than gas engines. or you could look at it another way which is just as true; one of the WORST ways to generate power is thru conventional automobile engine technology

I was surprised the Volt has such a big engine. Would have thought half that would be plenty. Perhaps there is diminishing return from making it smaller? Or did they base it on an existing engine design?

Maybe the theory is that a larger genset gives you a short duty cycle, so say you're on a long trip at constant 75mph... a larger genset running for 15 minutes an hour burns less fuel than a small genset that just barely keeps up with the continuous drain from the motor and has to run almost all the time?

The Volt is designed to start the generator when the battery SOC dips below %30, and is sized to keep the battery at %30 SOC, while the car is being driven. Perhaps this is the size they needed for that to happen. It will NOT recharge the battery above the %30 SOC, that's how it's designed, just to prevent damage to the pack, while also keeping the car moving.

Yes, the Volt "range extender" will charge the battery above 30%.
If it starts charging at 30% and stops at 30%, it does nothing.

In mountain mode, it charges the battery even (much) higher.

With the battery depleted, the "extender" must supply almost all the
energy, possibly for a long uphill climb, and try to recharge the
battery as well. So, the 55kW (might be peak instead of average?)
might just be enough to keep the car's performance levels up
for uphill passing, etc, when the battery is too low to allow futher use.

Yes, there is a battle between driving and wanting the charge level up,
braking and wanting headroom for Regen energy to be stored,
anticipating climbing hills wanting a higher SOC, and wanting a low
SOC when arriving home.

Since the Volt does not kow what is ahead, GM gave the driver
some control over the on-the-road re-charging SOC "target" level,
and called it "Mountain Mode", I believe.

DaveinOlyWA said:

indyflick said:

Actually the Volt's on-board generator is a water cooled 55 kW (74 hp) setup. For a consumer generator, that's huge! Most consumer generators (those Honda's you see) are like 3000W - 6000W. The OP is talking about 700W.

Click to expand...

still does not change the fact that dedicated generators are far more efficient than gas engines. or you could look at it another way which is just as true; one of the WORST ways to generate power is thru conventional automobile engine technology

Click to expand...

You lost me Dave. What sort of generator are you thinking about? Nearly all consumer generators have gasoline engines as their power source. Also, for the most part, these generators pollute like hell because they don't have cats or other pollution control. There are some CARB versions which are better. Also some generators are tri-fuel (gas, NG, or LP) but regardless, they're nearly all ICE based. You can find wind generators and small scale hydro generators, but these are not the mass market generators you'll find at the big box stores.

indyflick said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

indyflick said:

Actually the Volt's on-board generator is a water cooled 55 kW (74 hp) setup. For a consumer generator, that's huge! Most consumer generators (those Honda's you see) are like 3000W - 6000W. The OP is talking about 700W.

Click to expand...

still does not change the fact that dedicated generators are far more efficient than gas engines. or you could look at it another way which is just as true; one of the WORST ways to generate power is thru conventional automobile engine technology

Click to expand...

You lost me Dave. What sort of generator are you thinking about? Nearly all consumer generators have gasoline engines as their power source. Also, for the most part, these generators pollute like hell because they don't have cats or other pollution control. There are some CARB versions which are better. Also some generators are tri-fuel (gas, NG, or LP) but regardless, they're nearly all ICE based. You can find wind generators and small scale hydro generators, but these are not the mass market generators you'll find at the big box stores.

Click to expand...

on retrospect, my response is a bit vague.

1) my assertion that if a generator is used you should get a 5000 watt Honda has not changed in anyway whatsoever

2) the Prius having one of the most efficient engines out There but still seems to waste Two gallons of gas for every gallon it converts. and. the stats on a normal engine are simply pathetic.
their issue is primarily due to the fact that they must provide a very wide range of power but is most efficient only in a very narrow band. the transmission can help with efficiency but only adds to the loss of power and can only do so much.

3) modern generators rank very high for efficient combustion so therefore pollute much less than a typical car burning the same volume of gasoline. now this might be a local requirement for WA State. but unleaded gas, catalytic converters, etc on generators have been required here for years. now granted, this adds a lot of expense to a unit and Hondas are pretty spendy.

the other reason i suggest a 5000 watt generator minimum is simply justification. here we frequently lose power (columbus day storm in 96?? i was without power for 12 days. granted that was by far the worst, but a whole lot of 1-2 day stretches are in there too) so a generator is handy and i personally would question one's sanity in paying $5,000 for a portable extended range option so getting one that can also power the necessities of the home would have to be considered.

i am guessing the OP is asking the question only based on the fact that he already has the 700 watt generator so there is no additional cost involved. now would i use it if i had no other options?? baring a very large hill in the very near vicinity my answer; HELL YA!!

well 700va is not going to get the job done. The other issue is whether the Leaf charger is power factor corrected. Power factor on chargers can range from 3% to 30% and will require that much more apparent power to avoid overload.

DaveinOlyWA said:

baring a very large hill in the very near vicinity my answer; HELL YA!!

Click to expand...

You lost me again Dave.