L1 Charging Better for LEAF Batteries???

So with all the speculation about EV battery losses, is it best to regularly do a slow trickle (L1) charge if you are not in a hurry??? I drive our "city" car 22 miles a day on average and it typically sits in the garage 10-15 hours each night. Would it be best for the batteries to let the charge level drop to 50% and then just regularly do a slow trickle charge every other day?

I would have thought so, but other "enthusiasts" on this board have informed me it's not the case; that the 3kw charger is in effect a trickle charger.

Most lithium batteries will happily charge at 3C or better. Some can charge much faster than that. For the LEAF's 24KWH pack, 3C is 8 hours, which is the time it takes at 240V at 3.3KW. So even the 3.3KW charging is still a slow charge as far as the batteries are concerned. Whether you charge slowly at 120V or faster at 240V shouldn't make any difference to the batteries life. It's the level 3 quick charging that's hard on the batteries.

For maximum battery life it's best not to top it up completely, and it's very important not to let it go down completely. When you don't need the full range I would say set the timer to charge it up to something like 80% every night, and don't let it go lower than 20%. The closer you stay to 50% the happier the batteries are, so it's best to charge it a little each night.

An 8-hour charge is 1/8 C, not 3C, which would be a 20-minute charge.

johnr said:

For maximum battery life it's best not to top it up completely, and it's very important not to let it go down completely. When you don't need the full range I would say set the timer to charge it up to something like 80% every night, and don't let it go lower than 20%. The closer you stay to 50% the happier the batteries are, so it's best to charge it a little each night.

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I'm no expert, but this is clearly debatable. In the first place, most people believe the LEAF electronics won't ever let you either "top it up completely" or "let it go down completely". I personally think that "full" and "empty" as the driver sees the battery is really about 90% and 10% on a true battery capacity basis. Secondly, I think I've seen hints from Nissan recently which suggest that charging more in one shot and doing it less frequently is better for the battery than a little bit every night. Remember, as we've been told repeatedly, this battery does not behave exactly like the little LIPOs many people have experience with.

Hopefully we'll understand all this better once we see a full Owner's Manual, and even better once some of our EE brethren get their hands on a battery.

+1 Well stated, p4e.

P4e probably has it right. Opportunity charging is the standard recommendation which means charging as much as possible. So plug it in but refrain from excessive quick charging since this is more likely to overcharge which shortens batt live

Charge when it makes sense.

Charging to from 95% to 100% 6 times a day is worse than one charge from 70% to 100%.

All sounds good to me. Not to add another dynamic to my L1 charging question but what about initial battery "break-in"? I thought I remember reading that your first charges should be from a very depleted battery to a very full battery or something like that??? I sorta assume Nissan will have already conditioned the battery in Japan so maybe this question is a total non-issue.

More likely, this battery chemistry does not need any special "break-in" use or charging.

My trip back from the dealer will be about 65 fast freeway miles, with a few hills.

garygid said:

My trip back from the dealer will be about 65 fast freeway miles, with a few hills.

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Boy, wouldn't that be a bummer if you had to do the last three miles in turtle mode!

Not that I think it is likely to happen. But if I were doing that I think I'd hold the freeway speed down to 70 for that first trip. (My drive from the dealer will be less than 30 miles, so I might be tempted to push it, and do some joy riding on the side.)

Well, I will be watching the "miles to destination" on the Nav and the "miles to recharge" on the instrument panel to see if they are tracking well.

If I see I am losing too many "miles to refill" as I progress, I will modify my driving speed and A/C use.

I do not mind arriving in turtle mode (but prefer not), but do not want to have to push it home (the last several blocks are up hill).

My "Plan B" is to stop at a Nissan-LEAF dealer 3 miles before my home, or another about 12 miles away.

As part of my "planning", I will have mapped out (and probably entered into the Nav) the locations of the several LEAF dealers along or near my route.

Not too likely that very many "public" charging stations will be available in February, but, by then, I should be able to see them with CARWINGS.

My "Backup Plan" is to knock on somebody's door and offer them a look at my new LEAF while my Nissan L1 EVSE "suckles" some of their e-fuel. An inexpensive bottle of Champagne and a few bars of chocolate (and some nylons ... wait, who said that? :lol will be part of my "emergency" kit.

garygid said:

My "Plan B" is to stop at a Nissan-LEAF dealer 3 miles before my home, or another about 12 miles away.

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They'll be happy you bought from someone else, I'm sure.

Rat said:

garygid said:

My "Plan B" is to stop at a Nissan-LEAF dealer 3 miles before my home, or another about 12 miles away.

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They'll be happy you bought from someone else, I'm sure.

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If they ever want to see me for service, they BETTER at least APPEAR to be happy. From what I hear, car dealers make the majority of their money from the service department over the life of the car, not just the profit they make on the day that you buy the car. Besides, if the chargers are publicly accessible, then you might not have to even talk to anyone from the dealer.

I know the service $$ of the Leaf will be less than an ICE, but any business that doesn't behave as if they want my business will simply never GET my business, now or in the future.

Gary; i can see it now. you laughing your ass off when you pull into your garage with half a charge left

DaveinOlyWA said:

Gary; i can see it now. you laughing your ass off when you pull into your garage with half a charge left

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Let's make book now on how much charge Gary has left! 65 miles at freeway speeds, no AC on account of it being winter - I'm going to say he'll have 20-25 miles range left.

If I have 25 miles left, my speed will not have been high enough.

But, I do expect to make it home with some "kWh to burn".

mwalsh said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

Gary; i can see it now. you laughing your ass off when you pull into your garage with half a charge left

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Let's make book now on how much charge Gary has left! 65 miles at freeway speeds, no AC on account of it being winter - I'm going to say he'll have 20-25 miles range left.

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hills are a killer, but if not cold and heat is not required, i will say 30 miles left if he keeps it under 65 and works them hills!!

It could be a 1-hour trip, it could take 2 hours, all depends upon the TOD traffic conditions.

@ Gary, Are you coming from Fontana Nissan as well? They will deliver the car on a flatbed within 100 miles for free. Am sort of thinking along these lines so we can go play around in it for a full day after its dropped off. Well see.