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LEAFer
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Re: Q: 120V emergency cord

Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:24 pm

planet4ever wrote:
LEAFer wrote:At Level2 charging you need the pilot signal, not just the "juice". I could be wrong ... may be the LEAF can be fooled to think it is doing Level 1 charging (where no pilot signal is needed) but use the 240volts you supply anyway.

I don't think your level 1 pilot statement can be right. Level 1 goes through the same connector on the Leaf as level 2, and I am quite sure that level 1 charging uses exactly the same kind of handshaking as level 2; it is just that the car and the EVSE agree on a different voltage and amperage. Yes, I said EVSE. The 120V "emergency cord" is not just a cord. It has an EVSE built into it where it plugs into the wall.

I am basing my statement on what I have learned about Tesla's implementation. The "emergency cord" supplied with a Roadster is simply a cable with NEMA 5-15P GFCI on one end, and the Tesla proprietary charge port connector (instead of J1772 plug) on the other end. On "teslamotorsclub.com" there is talk about the GFCI being too sensitive, causing tripping (and resultant abort of the charging process), and it has been suggested, and some owners have done so, to replace the GFCI NEMA5-15P with a regular non-GFCI version. There simply can't be any other "intelligence" (control signal) in that connector. Yes, that's unconfirmed, but a pretty reasonable bet (if I were a betting man). Here's a link to Tesla's product: http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections ... nector-120

And here's the TMC topic for your reading pleasure: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php?t=2875

Edit: This forum is about the LEAF ... the technique used could naturally be different ... so ... we would like to know: Is the "emergency cord" a "real" EVSE, or just a "dumb" 120V/12A "extension cord" ?
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garygid
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Re: Q: 120V emergency cord

Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:56 pm

With a 120v extension cord, a J-Plug (the J1772 plug), a "handle"/hood for the J-Plug, and possibly a few small parts, it should be possible to make an "emergency" 120v LEAF-charge "hose".

Of course, it might not be legal to use it, and a "real" 120v EVSE comes with each LEAF. So why bother to make one, unless the Nissan "hose" is too expensive.

Getting the J-Plug and the "handle" is the hard part.
If I can obtain these, I will see exactly what needs to be done from the J1772 specifications.

PM for my address if you want to send a J-Plug, a "handle", or a copy of the J1772 specs.
Last edited by garygid on Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Q: 120V emergency cord

Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:22 pm

evnow wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:The possibilities for shoddy half-assed electrical setups are pretty much unlimited. I've got a fair amount of experience doing electrical work though and feel there's a lot to be said for having properly engineered, certified equipment installed as it was intended. That said, you know there are going to be a lot of EV's charged by hot-wiring porch lights. It's all fun and games till somebody loses an eyeball.


You mean something like this is not upto code ?

Image



Did you Google Earth my address?

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evnow
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Re: Q: 120V emergency cord

Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:09 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:Did you Google Earth my address?


This is the place I stayed at when visiting India :lol:

In some places in the sub-continent it is common to "steal" power by directly connecting to live wires that run overhead everywhere. They just bribe the utility guy.

Things can get so bad - the "trasmission losses" can run over 50%.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4802248.stm

Similar scenes can be seen in many parts of Delhi. According to the latest official estimate, as much as 42% of the power supplied to India's capital disappears through "transmission losses", meaning it is consumed without being paid for. In effect, it is stolen.
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garygid
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Re: Q: 120V emergency cord

Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:00 pm

In the USA, was it only 30% electrical power transmission losses nationwide?
Somebody had a chart of energy sources and uses.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
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IceRaven
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Re: Q: 120V emergency cord

Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:17 am

I have seen converters that convert 120v to 220v (its a black box you plug in a 120v outlet and theres a 220v outlet on it), I guess thats equally useless in this case?

What is the "Pilot Signal" ?


I guess if its technically possible to have a cable that connects to a 120v and charges faster but there arent any initially, when thousands upon thousands of leafs are in the market, if Nissan doesnt offer such a product someone else might, I hope it wouldn't be 600$ like the Tesla cable though.

I'll have to check ranges, but theres a cottage I go over to once every few years, I think I can get there but would have a low charge on the battery and there wont be an official 220v Station at the cottage or any fast charge nearby(forest and cottages), being able to recharge with 120v overnight in about 12h would do the trick and would be great. Otherwise I'll just rent a car for these rare trips (but theres a so close feeling)

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mwalsh
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Re: Q: 120V emergency cord

Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:24 am

IceRaven wrote:I have seen converters that convert 120v to 220v (its a black box you plug in a 120v outlet and theres a 220v outlet on it), I guess thats equally useless in this case?


Step-up transformer. I have one I use to drive an old stereo system I brought with me from the UK. Can't imagine they'd be applicable to the Leaf in any way.
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Q: 120V emergency cord

Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:15 am

For most of these discussions it's helpful to think in terms of watts, not volts or amps. How fast you can charge is a function of how many watts you can pump into the car.

The advantage of higher voltages is you can deliver more watts over a given wire size. You could step up the voltage coming out of a wall outlet (perfect use for those old tube TV's, don't they step up to like 100,000 volts?) but you still don't get any more watts out of it.
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Re: Q: 120V emergency cord

Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:31 am

garygid wrote:The EVSE "handshaking" (the Control Pilot wire) probably carries a different "DC" voltage to the car (maybe just one different resistor in the EVSE) to indicate 120v power instead of 240v power.

With "no" pilot signal (or perhaps some minimal, fixed-voltage pilot signal) from the EVSE, I think the car is to expect 120v and draw no more than 12 amps after the J-Plug is in place.

Someone with the J1772 specs (AndyH) might be able to tell us for sure.

I would look if I had the standards document.


Gary,

I can't find anything in the J1772 Jan '10 document that suggests the EVSE can signal the car about input voltage. I suspect the on-board charger is an 85V-265v input device like many off-board chargers.

The purpose and functions of the pilot signal are clearly defined and signalling supply voltage is not one of them.

Andy

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Re: Q: 120V emergency cord

Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:07 am

The Control Pilot signal is used by the EVSE primarily to tell the car what max AC current is available. It can also signal that there has been an "EVSE-Error" to the car.

The car uses the same line primarily to ask the EVSE to "turn ON/OFF" the AC power lines from the EVSE to the car. The line also informs the EVSE that the car requires ventilation (or not) while charging.

With the LEAF's sealed batteries, no "ventilation" is needed. Lead-Acid batteries (that might produce hydrogen) should request ventilation.

The EVSE "should have" a specific-value resistor between its Pilot Voltage generator and the Pilot signal's exit from the EVSE, and the EVSE (and car) can monitor that "Pilot Voltage". The resistor might vary between a 120v EVSE and a 240v EVSE. Maybe AndyH knows the value, or values.

I assume that a zero Pilot voltage indicates there is not a "Live" EVSE available. Apparently a steady non-zero Pilot voltage and a 1kHz square wave are the other two possibilities.

Depending upon the values of resistors in the car and the one in the EVSE, several different "conditions" are indicated.
The 1kHz square-wave's duty cycle, from around 10% to 90%, indicate to the car that about 6 to 80 amps of AC is available (details posted elsewhere).

The car uses different values of resistance to tell the EVSE that ventilation is required, and to signal (ask for) power ON and OFF.

I need details of the resistor values and timing of the signaling (like "connect") sequences to do more.

It is OK (legal, I believe) to share the information contained in the standards document, but one must buy (about $60) the document itself.
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2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
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PU: SDG&E
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