Can I use the SAE J1772 EVSE I have with Leaf?

I was a leasee of the Honda EV Plus and as a result I already have an SAE J1772 EVSE installed in my garage. Of course this EVSE is currently fitted with the older rectangular Avcon connector and not the newer round Yazaki connector.

I currently see no reason that I could not just swap out the old cord and connector with a new cord and connector and be good to go for the Leaf. I'm 99% confident that my EVSE is electrically compatible with the Leaf but verifying the connections and sourcing the cable and connector looks to be difficult.

My motivation for trying to do this is to be both green and frugal. I just don't see the point of buying and installing another EVSE if it turns out I have a serviceable EVSE already installed in my garage.

I appreciate any comments and suggestions especially about sourcing the cable and connector and verifying the connections between the EVSE and the Leaf.

Thanks!

Link to a description of the EVSE I have:
http://www.bowzerbird.com/eviweb/products2.html#mcs100

Link to a document I found describing the newer round Yazaki connector:
http://portal.fciconnect.com/res/en/pdffiles/AutomotiveHighPower/FCIPowerS3SAEJ1772ChargeplugMicrosite201004.pdf

Great thoughts and strategy !
As a first step to researching this ... contact Clipper Creek.

What LEAFer said.

A couple things changed from the old to the current J1772. The connector is one obvious part. But the more critical part is the way th eEVSE talks to the car - the pilot signal method changed with the Jan 2010 J1772.

It might be possible to use your current EVSE after some upgrades, but it might also be possible that it's less expensive all around to box the old unit and get a new one.

Good Hunting!

AndyH said:

But the more critical part is the way the EVSE talks to the car - the pilot signal method changed with the Jan 2010 J1772.

Click to expand...

Argh! Thanks AndyH, I was afraid of that. I know my EVSE has the pilot signal module but if you say the pilot signal method changed that would make this project most likely way more complicated than it is worth. It would be very different if Electric Vehicle Infrastructure was still in business and could provide the new pilot signal module.

LEAFer said:

As a first step to researching this ... contact Clipper Creek.

Click to expand...

Thanks LEAFer, I think I will contact them just the same and see what they have to say.

AndyH said:

But the more critical part is the way th eEVSE talks to the car - the pilot signal method changed with the Jan 2010 J1772.

Click to expand...

Clipper Creek should be able to answer this also, but since a Tesla Roadster can charge at an "old" public Avcon with few tricks ...

Even if the box does not have the correct signal a few parts under $5 will make it work. I you have difficulty I can help you develop a pilot signal, I've done this on several AVCOn boxes and its quite easy. You should be fine if the box is functional.

EVDRIVER said:

I you have difficulty I can help you develop a pilot signal

Click to expand...

Thanks EVDRIVER for the very generous offer!

The real key to this project is to be absolutely sure I can pull it off before we take delivery of our Leaf. I also want to be absolutely sure that by not going with the AeroVironment EVSE and install I am not risking a delay in getting our Leaf delivered.

Ideally I hope to have delivery of the Leaf this year so I can use the government incentives on this years taxes. My significant other would not be happy with me if trying to use the EVSE we have jeopardized that in anyway. Perhaps I just talked myself out of trying this project and I should just pay the piper and go with the AeroVironment even though it irks me so. I suppose I could still work on updating the old EVSE for an install at another location.

I am not sure you can it could void the Leaf's warranty.

Gonewild said:

I am not sure you can it could void the Leaf's warranty.

Click to expand...

Yes, if they find out. I'm sure the warranty will say something about using only UL certified EVSE ...

evnow said:

I'm sure the warranty will say something about using only UL certified EVSE ...

Click to expand...

Well the EVSE I have does say "UL Listed EV Power Outlets 8Z66" right on it but I know what you mean

All this AV stuff is scare tactics to get people to use their over priced package, from them telling people they would not get a tax credit to warranty scares. The EVSE is either ON or OFF, it can't damage the leaf in any way as the car unless you wire 240 to the pilot signal line or something insane like that. Leafs will be charged daily at NON-AV EVSE sites and it won't void a single warranty. Nissan CS reps have stated repeatedly the EVSE install date has no impact on your delivery date, in fact the order date is already set. YOU could get a J1772 cord and a few parts to make a "fake" pilot signal and have it hot and it would charge the Leaf safely every time. Clipper Creek and others are selling J1772 inlets for AVCON users to do conversions, it's all about the plug, there is no magic here. This is a basic pilot signal, not some special proprietary signal. You can even sign a waiver when you pick up the car that you will use 120 charging and if you decide to get a new box you will have plenty of options then. Why pay AV $2200 plus for something you have already have and even if you buy another EVSE just install it yourself or pay an electrician $200 max to put it up and still get the tax rebate on the cost of the box and the labor. I think many people in your shoes and those that are pre-wired may be a bit bitter if they over pay for work that is 90% done or pay for equipment and materials they don't need.

And with where you are (Foster City) you'll have plenty of public level 2 infrastructure. If it where me in that location, I'd initially go with the supplied (free) level 1 at home and level 2 public, until affordable level 2 alternatives for home are available. (And they likely will be by December ... we just don't know pricing yet. My current choice is Leviton (pending price announcement).)
In the meantime ... you can "monkey around" with your existing unit. BTW, I assume you have the "TinyPilot" option, but what cable do you use and what vehicle are you charging at the moment ?

LEAFer said:

BTW, I assume you have the "TinyPilot" option, but what cable do you use and what vehicle are you charging at the moment ?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately it has not been used to charge a vehicle since our beloved Honda EV Plus was taken away Thanksgiving weekend 2003. The EVSE unit worked flawlessly since it was put into service to charge our Honda EV Plus since Presidents day weekend 1998 and I have no reason to suspect that it does not work flawlessly today.

I can't say the same for the Avcon provided cord and connector though. Around year 4 or 5, I don't remember exactly, the car did not charge one day. I was pretty sure it was not a fault with the car and suspected the EVSE and in a panic I called Edison EV, the company that serviced our EVSE equipment. The reason I was in a panic is that we were past the 3 year lease point where if there was any issue with the car or the EVSE it would most likely not get fixed and we would be required to return the car. I was also concerned no one would still be at Edison EV since this is about when the whole electric vehicle program in California was starting to shut down. Luckily for me there was at least one person still left at Edison EV, I sure wish I remember who it was, but he knew immediately what the problem was. He told me that the pilot signal wire had a habit of breaking in the Avcon provided cable and connector assemblies about a foot down from the connector handle. Quickly checking with an ohmmeter confirmed this and the location of the break was almost exactly where the person from Edison EV said it would be. A nice cut into the insulation and two good crimps on a butt connector and I was good to go again. Sorry to stray a little off topic but I certainly hope the newer cables and connectors are much more robust this time.

I did want to mention something that I find interesting about the unit I have is that the charging cable is not hardwired to the unit. It uses a standard plug to wire the charging cable and even provides both 120V 20 and 240V 40 connections making swapping out charging cables fairly easy, not that I ever had a need to do it. The pilot connection is only on the 240V 40 of course. The unit itself is hardwired to the subpanel in the garage though.

Spies said:

I did want to mention something that I find interesting about the unit I have is that the charging cable is not hardwired to the unit. It uses a standard plug to wire the charging cable and even provides both 120V 20 and 240V 40 connections making swapping out charging cables fairly easy, not that I ever had a need to do it. The pilot connection is only on the 240V 40 of course. The unit itself is hardwired to the subpanel in the garage though.

Click to expand...

The 120V/20A likely won't work on the LEAF due to the missing pilot signal, but you won't need to use it since NISSAN provides their own. Still call Clipper Creek. They might be able to supply a cable which connects to the 240V/40A plus pilot, and has the new J1772 at the end. If not, with a little skill, and info from Clipper Creek, you could create your own ... or EVDRIVER can help

LEAFer said:

Still call Clipper Creek. They might be able to supply a cable which connects to the 240V/40A plus pilot, and has the new J1772 at the end. If not, with a little skill, and info from Clipper Creek, you could create your own ... or EVDRIVER can help

Click to expand...

Thanks again LEAFer, I sent Clipper Creek an email right after you mentioned them in your previous post. I will certainly give them a call if I don't hear back from them soon. I certainly hope they will be willing to at least sell me a cable with the new J1772 so I can try wiring it myself. And I certainly will be grateful for EVDRIVER's help if the pilot signal ends up needing to be updated to work with the Leaf.

I also just read up on the Leviton in the other thread and it sounds like it will be a great EVSE option too, thanks!

Gonewild said:

I am not sure you can it could void the Leaf's warranty.

Click to expand...

To void a warranty the device has to be proven to have caused damage. If one does their homework in advance, they won't break anything and the warranty 'gods' stay happily singing.

Can anybody tell us how the "old" pilot signal was different?

I do not (yet) have a copy of the old J1772 standard, not to be confused with the new J1772 standard!

If something is marked as meeting the "new" J1772 standard, how is it marked, to distinguish it from the "old" certification?

The (probably) first "new" J1772 installation in Woodland, CA.

See http://www.evchargernews.com/regions/95776_1.htm (not yet updated),

and here (updated with comments),

and here ("news story"). ( In the news story, ignore the "Woodside" it's a typo. )

It looks like (to be really useful) the "Other" category needs to have:
"Level2" (2010 J1772),
"Level3" (2011 J1772?),
"120v15a" (15 amp), and
"120v20a" (20 amp)
categories broken out of it.

garygid said:

It looks like (to be really useful) the "Other" category needs to have:
"Level2" (2010 J1772),
"Level3" (2011 J1772?),
"120v15a" (15 amp), and
"120v20a" (20 amp)
categories broken out of it.

Click to expand...

The site does need updating. But distinguishing between the two Level 1's you suggest would be going overboard. The "Level3" you're asking for is covered by the "DCQ" box on EVChargerMaps and refers to the DC-QuickCharge compatible with LEAF and iMiev (but not J1772, yet). "OC" means other conductive, but unfortunately is does NOT distinguish between 120V and 240V (example here), which is a HUGE difference.