LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

GetOffYourGas said:

GRA said:

GetOffYourGas said:

What a wonderful attitude :roll:

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OTOH, most human actions are based on short or long-term self-interest, so as long as it's not going to impact him or anyone he cares about, why should he care? The earth will survive regardless. It's certainly arguable that on the whole it might be better off without us, and given the unlikelihood that we're the only sentient species in the universe let alone a particularly critical one, our survival is probably of no importance (except to us). <snip>

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How existentialist of you, Guy. <snip> But we digress. There's probably a better thread for discussing reasons for considering EVs. But I'm just following the conversation where I found it.

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It was a slow summer day, so my mind strayed from purely factual matters.

GetOffYourGas said:

I, on the other hand, believe in a much deeper reality. This physical world, while important, is only part of our reality. We are spiritual creatures as much as physical ones, and our souls matter too. And by "our", I am including every single person: you, me, NavyCuda, all 8 billion of us sharing the earth today. I have never met you guys and probably never will. But your physical and spiritual well being are just as important to me as my own. And so in support at least of the former, I will work to preserve our Earth's capability of supporting human life to the best of my ability. It saddens me that NavyCuda feels the way he does, but there's nothing I can do about it. <snip rest>

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You are as entitled to your opinions, such as that we all have souls, as he is entitled to his, which I assume include the idea that such a thing as a soul doesn't exist (unless it's made by Kia), and that when we die, that's it.

Selling off-grid AE equipment way back when, while most of my customers were fairly normal, and were buying the stuff for a wide variety of social, political, economic or other reasons, I had the full spectrum from uber-left greens who wanted to disconnect to a greater or lesser extent from society and live in the back of beyond, to uber-right survivalists preparing for an NBC Armageddon or an anti-government rebellion, and everything in between. Rather than trying to impose my choices and values on them, I'd give them a variety of options and let them make up their own minds as to their priorities.

As for the reasons they wanted to go off-grid, most of them had already figured that out for themselves, and I didn't try to convince them that my reasons were better, only point out where they were factually wrong (such as the idea that going off-grid would save them money compared to paying a utility for electricity, when they already had the utility service right there). I have the same attitude towards EVs - I don't much care why someone chooses one (or decides they aren't for them), but I want to give them the best factual advice I can about their options (and if asked, what options I recommend for them), and let them make their own decision. And that's enough OT.

It's to bad I was hit twice in my 2015... Nissan won't take it on trade.

LeftieBiker said:

Who would buy this over the Bolt ?

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If it's much less expensive to buy or lease than the Bolt, has 140 miles of range, QC standard, and the interior comfort of the current Leaf with another 25+HP and better working headlights, then I will. Cheerfully. I have no desire to drive a fast but crude little box with terrible seats.

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Much less to buy than the Bolt ? don't know about that.

Nissan should at least have the same 65-70 Kw DC charging that the Ioniq has and more at this stage of the game.

IssacZachary said:

And what's wrong with keeping some of the old Leaf in a Leaf? Car companies that go away from an original model's looks, even looks that nobody seems to likes, don't end up attracting the original enthusiasts.

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A new model is what people were expecting and what I would expect when they say "new" .

And it is sad that they have no dedicated EV platform and still continue to build the Leaf like an ICE instead of most of the components in the chassis like the Model S and I3.

People were also expecting to see 60 Kwh like Nissan demonstrated but now not likely.

I do hope they have faster DC charging, that can in some way make up for having less range.

People were also expecting to see 60 Kwh like Nissan demonstrated but now not likely.

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Don't panic. The 60kwh pack is expected to be offered in 2018.

NavyCuda said:

Polls said ly'n Hillary Clinton was going to win easily too. Trump 2020!

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That says more about you than I could have ever said. I don't think we need to make EVs appealing to people who support a guy who boasted about sexual assault.

evnow said:

NavyCuda said:

Polls said ly'n Hillary Clinton was going to win easily too. Trump 2020!

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That says more about you than I could have ever said. I don't think we need to make EVs appealing to people who support a guy who boosted about sexual assault.

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So you're admitting to being a baised elitist?

Was I or was I not correct?

o00scorpion00o said:

IssacZachary said:

And what's wrong with keeping some of the old Leaf in a Leaf? Car companies that go away from an original model's looks, even looks that nobody seems to likes, don't end up attracting the original enthusiasts.

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A new model is what people were expecting and what I would expect when they say "new" .

And it is sad that they have no dedicated EV platform and still continue to build the Leaf like an ICE instead of most of the components in the chassis like the Model S and I3.

People were also expecting to see 60 Kwh like Nissan demonstrated but now not likely.

I do hope they have faster DC charging, that can in some way make up for having less range.

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Which people? I understand that the new Leaf must be better than the old Leaf. But if it's nothing like my beloved Leaf then I'm not going to have a preference for it even though it has the name "Leaf" and it's made by Nissan.

I think Nissan should Make the Leaf 2 similar to the Leaf 1, and to make all you folks who want something completely different happy, well, make something completely different with a completely different name and all. But please don't take out of the Leaf everything I love about the Leaf.

Ok boys, let's get back to talking about LEAF next. We're less than 60 days before the Global reveal and soon all will be made clear!

Nissan has made what appears to me to be a significant mistake in their marketing. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that the "Leaf 2" is really a revamped "Leaf 1" and that Nissan will be using production tooling savings to compete with the Bolt on Price, then what they are doing is setting people who expect a 100% new Leaf up to be disappointed and angry on September 6th. They should be releasing more specifics by now. If they really want to keep what looks to be a more mundane body a secret, then they should be releasing option and pricing information. As it is, I can easily envision Nissan "unveiling" the "Leaf 2" only to discover that GM, with a glut of unsold Bolts, can actually compete with them on price, while beating them handily on specs. Then Nissan will be left with:

"The Leaf 2: it's got more comfortable seats!"

OrientExpress said:

Ok boys, let's get back to talking about LEAF next. We're less than 60 days before the Global reveal and soon all will be made clear!

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Ok, but first I'd like to add this bit of 22,000 years history for perspective:

https://www.quora.com/History-and-climate-history-how-accurate-is-this-image

But to get back on topic, will we be able to choose a green color?

It will be interesting to see if Nissan actually makes an effort to market the new Leaf. The car companies still seem to reluctantly be in the EV business, based on their lackluster marketing efforts.

Hope Tesla knocks it out of the park with the M3, as that's really the only thing that's going to shake up the car business.

Nissan never expected the Leaf to sell so well and they never in a million years thought people would be commuting the distances they do.

If Nissan were serious about selling electric cars then they'd have more EV models by now after 8 years.

Leaf II has simply got to be better, and better means a lot more range and much faster charging, while I don't need to carry around a 200 mile battery 95 % of the time , I do wish for a lot more range when I need it. I take the diesel for the trips I can't be bothered taking more than 1 DC charge. One way to get away with less Kwh is having the ability to charge a lot faster. The 24 Kwh leaf charges way too slow.

The new 40 Kwh battery Zoe does not charge any faster than the 22 Kwh one and tin my opinion Renault made a huge mistake here because what took 30 mins to get to 80% will now take 1 hr wasting a precious charger as someone might feel entitled to wait until 80% whether they need it or not for free electricity , it's bad enough at come charge points in Ireland as it is , however , Renault at least did one good thing and that was have the charger on board and we have a lot of 22 Kw AC points here which Zoe makes full use of and brilliant for under 2 hrs for a charge of nearly 40 Kwh while you're in town and other manufacturers need to include faster ac charging however DC is King on the Motorway and we need faster and faster charging cars and infrastructure.

The Hyundai Ioniq charges fast at 65 Kw here on our newer DC supposedly 45 Kw chargers, a nice surprise for Ioniq owners and I;ve driven it and it makes a big difference compared to a 24 Kwh leaf 23-90% in 25 mins flat. 23-80% in about 20 mins, this does make a big difference, it charges at 65 Kw to 80% the 24 Kwh leaf charges at 45 Kw to about 50% and then about 30-35 Kw and then it gets lower and lower as it gets near 80%.

Nissan should at least they should have a liquid cooled battery and 100+ Kw charging after all this time. But no, they're again going to cut costs by keeping the majority of the old Leaf. They'll probably have a more efficient drive train and a little better aerodynamics but the car looks far too like the current model. You'd think after all the battery problems in hot climates that they'd at least now have liquid cooling ? This would also allow for much faster charging, now perhaps the battery will be capable of higher currents, time will tell but at this stage they need to be at 100 Kw then I could live a lot easier with a 40 Kwh battery.

They should also make a larger EV that is suitable for families, you can't fit an adult in the rear of the Leaf with 2 Child seats for instance and the boot is crap.

Propilot is a half assed attempt of automation and you need at least one hand on the wheel, this is what Nissan are going to use in a hope to make it more attractive but in an EV people want faster charging and more range and it's as simple as that.

rdhauser said:

But to get back on topic, will we be able to choose a green color?

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Rumor has it that for 2018 customers will be able to choose a green color.

alozzy said:

It will be interesting to see if Nissan actually makes an effort to market the new Leaf. The car companies still seem to reluctantly be in the EV business, based on their lackluster marketing efforts.

Hope Tesla knocks it out of the park with the M3, as that's really the only thing that's going to shake up the car business.

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This is an odd statement, as the Nissan-Renault-Mitsubishi Alliance is the world's largest manufacturer of electric vehicles and have sold more EVs than anyone else. They have been in the EV business for over 70 years now, and seem to know the business better than anyone else.



As far as Tesla goes, the cracks in their strategy are starting to show, as they missed their manufacturing startup goal yesterday for start of Model 3 production.

OrientExpress said:

rdhauser said:

But to get back on topic, will we be able to choose a green color?

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Rumor has it that for 2018 customers will be able to choose a green color.

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I'm excited! Nice deep British Racing or Hunter Green.

I have not yet seen the green color, but rumor is that it is more of a frost silver green. But I agree that a BRG or Hunter green with saddle interior would be stunning.

@OrientExpress

Guess I've just somehow missed every ad that Nissan has ever run for the Leaf as I've still not seen a single one - neither on TV or YouTube.

If that's the best Nissan can do, then I'm not impressed

alozzy said:

@OrientExpress

Guess I've just somehow missed every ad that Nissan has ever run for the Leaf as I've still not seen a single one - neither on TV or YouTube.

If that's the best Nissan can do, then I'm not impressed

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I would suspect that impressing you is not at the top of their list, but despite that shortcoming, they are still the largest EV manufacturer in the world and no one has sold more EVs than them. That's the metric that really matters to them.

I guess that that metric makes Walmart the best retailer in the world...