60 miles daily roundtrip all year long

Costy,

If your commute is 60 miles round trip (30 miles each way) and you are assured the ability to charge at work every day, a LEAF will work for you. You will need to charge at work and at home during colder months, but you might make the round trip during warmer months. If you want to push to make the round trip on a single charge as much as possible, you need a LEAF with a heat pump HVAC system (2013-2017 SV or SL) or any 2018 with the larger battery.

Longer term, your climate is going to dictate whether you can continue to do that commute as battery degradation rate is almost entirely dictated by how hot your summers are (provided you don't otherwise do abusive charging cycles).

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Assuming that he gets a 4/2013 or later build. Earlier Leafs will degrade from time alone.

LeftieBiker said:

Longer term, your climate is going to dictate whether you can continue to do that commute as battery degradation rate is almost entirely dictated by how hot your summers are (provided you don't otherwise do abusive charging cycles).

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Assuming that he gets a 4/2013 or later build. Earlier Leafs will degrade from time alone.

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Unless he finds one with a newer battery.

RegGuheert said:

Costy said:

Someone asked me about the elevation. At home I have about 2200 feet, on top of the mountain I have 3220 feet and at work only 1100 feet.
From the top of the mountain to work I go downhill about 95% of the time and from top to home I go downhill 100%. The average speed is about 35-40 miles.

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That profile really is quite ideal if you are charging at work IF THE REGEN IS WORKING. The reason is that you will deplete the battery significantly before you start downhill. You probably want AT LEAST 20 kW of regen available, if you have more available, like maybe 30 kW, then you can do more than hold your speed on the downhills: you can slow the car for the turns, too.

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If he keeps a steady speed without needing to slow down for turns it sounds like 10kW of regen would work with that kind of elevation change and car speed.

IssacZachary said:

If he keeps a steady speed without needing to slow down for turns it sounds like 10kW of regen would work with that kind of elevation change and car speed.

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Based on this...

Costy said:

I live in a mountain area so there is no highway, only curvy roads and in the winter the temps can go down as low as 0 Fahrenheit but not very often. The average temp in winter is 30 to 20 Fahrenheit.

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...it sounds like he will have to slow down for curves. On the mountain we live near, you need more than 20 kW to hold your speed in the LEAF, but our MY2011 with three capacity bars gone gives us NONE in the wintertime, even after driving 10 miles and then climbing the other side for two miles. Coming home after driving another 25 miles, there is still no more than about 6 kW. If there were curves, it would be much worse since the brakes would be a safety requirement. As it is, they are needed only to avoid the police.

Thank you again guys for the support. I am looking at some other options because I know it's not good for the batteries to
deeply discharge every time. It seems that I need a car with a higher range so the batteries will work better.
I saw these days a Fiat 500e and I was surprised that there is such an EV car. I google it and I found that the owners are quite happy and the average trips are about 87 miles. It might be a better option because of a little longer range. The price is very low for a second hand one.
I don't want to spend a lot of money on a new 40kWh Leaf even if I like it very much.

The Fiat is not just a "compliance car" (A gas car converted to EV drive for zero emission credits) but they are also converted individually, by hand. You'd think that this would help the quality, but it doesn't. I'd also worry about parts support in the future from Fiat/Chrysler. As for cycling the Leaf batteries, that doesn't hurt them, as long as they don't sit for long periods at 100% charge or at less than 20% charge. Quick Charging when the battery is hot also isn't good for it.

@Costy before you dismiss the LEAF entirely, spend a few minutes using the EV trip planner I mentioned. It will give you a decent kWh estimate for your commute and if you set the outside temp low (as I suggested) then that will give you a decent idea of winter usage conditions. Make sure to calculate the reverse trip energy usage too. Then, post back the round trip estimated energy usage results here.

Costy: Asking about your location again. Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

Can you reliably charge at home and work each day?

Costy said:

.
I saw these days a Fiat 500e and I was surprised that there is such an EV car. I google it and I found that the owners are quite happy and the average trips are about 87 miles. It might be a better option because of a little longer range. The price is very low for a second hand one.

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Fiat 500e is a California compliance car. FCA's CEO doesn't like making EVs very much (e.g. https://insideevs.com/fiat-ceo-fiat-loses-14000-every-500e-sold/ and https://www.reuters.com/article/chrsyelr-ceo-evs/fiat-chrysler-ceo-please-dont-buy-fiat-500e-electric-car-idUSL1N0O71MS20140521).

If you're not in California, you may have trouble getting it serviced, if something goes wrong. FCA reliability, at least for their ICEVs (internal combustion engine vehicles) is pretty dismal so it might be pretty risky once it goes out of warranty.

EPA range rating for the 500e is 3 miles more than a '13 to '15 Leaf: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=35206&id=34699&id=37067.
https://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/21/2013-nissan-leaf-revealed-gets-75-mile-range-actually-84-in-n/
https://insideevs.com/2014-nissan-leaf-mostly-unchanged-as-range-technically-moves-up-to-84-miles/

30 kWh Leaf ('16 SV and SL and late '16 "S 30" (https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106593_nissan-leaf-s-quietly-gets-30-kwh-battery-upgrade-higher-price) and all '17 Leafs) would give you more cushion in your cold weather.

About location, I live in Europe, in Germany and here are a lot of dealers that are importing now many Fiat 500e and I thought it could be an option. The real issue here is that there is no customer service and I heard that even in States, outside California and Oregon is hard to find support if you have some problems.
So no, I didn't quite forgot the Leaf. Even in Europe now the prices are going down on older Leafs because of the new 2018 model. There are good prices now for 2013 - 2015 models, for 2016 are still high. I don't know which year will be the best for my particular case.
Do you know guys where I can check the VIN ? Did you have any recalls, any software updates I should be aware of?

Thank you again guys,
All the best - Costy.

Costy: Thanks for indicating your location. Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

Can you reliably charge at home and work each day? This makes a huge difference on whether you need 30 miles of range autonomy in a day on a charge vs. 60 miles.

I can charge it at work for free so I don't want to really charge it at home. I have some charging stations at about 4-6 miles from where I live
but you know, when you arrive home after work you don't really feel like going outside again to charge the car.

Costy said:

Do you know guys where I can check the VIN ? Did you have any recalls, any software updates I should be aware of?

Thank you again guys,
All the best - Costy.

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This is the only VIN lookup link I know of, not sure if it will work for European Leafs though....
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=23716
Click on the link in the first post and then substitute your VIN for the one in the link. It should give you the original window sticker.

jjeff said:

This is the only VIN lookup link I know of, not sure if it will work for European Leafs though....

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Unlikely, since it doesn't wok on LEAFs built in Japan, even those shipped to the US for sale.

Costy said:

I can charge it at work for free so I don't want to really charge it at home. I have some charging stations at about 4-6 miles from where I live but you know, when you arrive home after work you don't really feel like going outside again to charge the car.

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Ideal case would be a charging station where you park your car at home. Then you take seconds to plug in when you park the car. This also lets you preheat the car on frosty mornings using grid power. Nice to get into a cozy car.

60 miles is more than I would attempt as a commute. Summer, sure. Winter, with cold, wind, sloppy roads, not a chance.

@Costy got to be honest, your comments suggest you'll be an unhappy EV owner. The fact that you would consider plugging in your EV, when arriving home, a burden suggests you lack patience. Buy a gas powered car instead.

EV ownership, particularly for lower range EVs, requires a willingness to change your mindset and to be comfortable with opportunistic charging. Also, thinking that you can rely exclusively on work charging is nieve.

Accept the fact that you'll have to charge at home and better yet, be prepared to invest in an L2 home EVSE, before you even consider an EV.

alozzy said:

@Costy got to be honest, your comments suggest you'll be an unhappy EV owner. The fact that you would consider plugging in your EV, when arriving home, a burden suggests you lack patience. Buy a gas powered car instead.

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I get the impression from Costy's last post that he lives in an apartment or something which does not allow him to plug in, hence his reluctance to do that. But I could be wrong...

Owning a low range EV like the LEAF requires an early adopter mindset, you need to accept that sometimes charging is inconvenient and more frequent than expected. I still enjoy opportunistic and free L2 public charging, but I know lots of people in my social circles who would find it a PITA. A LEAF isn't the right car for everyone, it's not a personal attack on Costy...

Yes, that is all the more evidence that not all people would be happy with EVs . Just like owning a dog... You have to feed, walk, pick up, and give attention to the thing daily... Not all people are cut out for that. I agree that the poster should not get an EV.

Costy said:

I can charge it at work for free so I don't want to really charge it at home. I have some charging stations at about 4-6 miles from where I live but you know, when you arrive home after work you don't really feel like going outside again to charge the car.

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It sounds like cost is a major consideration. Therefore, if you can guarantee level 2 charging at both work and home, I would buy a cheap 2013 Leaf SL or SV (the oldest one with the more efficient heater). The 2011/2012 would be less expensive, but has a heater that consumes a lot of energy. The money that you save purchasing the 5 year old EV will be much greater than the extra cost of electricity at home. The only other way to guarantee a 60 mi round trip commute in winter in the mountains is to purchase a longer range (and/or newer) EV for a significantly higher purchase price (such as Tesla, Leaf 2, Zoe, etc.). In Europe, you have access to EVs that we can't get in the US, so you might consider those.

Hello again guys,

The infrastructure for electric cars in Europe it's not so well spread out like in the US and that's a good thing because you can still find a lot of free charge stations. It's not a problem to install a charger at home, It's just that feeling that you can go for free ... maybe with the new Leaf but it's quite pricey right now!
I could go with my gasoline engine car at work in those cold days in winter and in the rest of the year to take the Leaf.