129 MPGe .... wow!

[theaveng]

Oh wait.
FE.gov says that's city.
:-( Manufacturers should be required by law to reveal in their TV ads if they are advertising city or highway MPG. For me the "city" number is irrelevant (I don't drive through the city), and I look at the less impressive 102 highway figure.

Just curious: What did Nissan change to boost their [2013] city economy over 20 more MPGe higher [than 2012]?

thanks
:-D

 

[garsh]

Just curious: What did Nissan change to boost their city economy over 20 more MPGe?

They drove slower.

The stop-and-go of the city cycle doesn't hurt mileage in an EV like it does an internal combustion vehicle - there's no penalty for "idling".

 

[TomT]

That's not entirely true as there is still a small energy draw at idle. With a LeafDD, Lincomatic, Battery App, or the like you can see it... With CC and lights off, it is typically about 300 watts on my car...

The stop-and-go of the city cycle doesn't hurt mileage in an EV like it does an internal combustion vehicle - there's no penalty for "idling".

 

[Stoaty]

Just curious: What did Nissan change to boost their city economy over 20 more MPGe?

They drove slower.

Not possible, since the test is on a specific cycle and certified by the EPA. The only way that could happen is if Nissan cheated on the test.

 

[theaveng]

They drove slower.

Please don't answer serious questions with BS answers. The city cycle is explicitly specified by the EPA for fixed speeds at fixed times & fixed stopping lengths. Every "city" test is identical & your answer in no way explains the sudden >20mpg higher result from 2011/2012 to 2013. Neither does your answer help me better-understand what Nissan changed in the car.

 

[RegGuheert]

Please don't answer serious questions with BS answers. The city cycle is explicitly specified by the EPA for fixed speeds at fixed times & fixed stopping lengths. Every "city" test is identical & your answer in no way explains the sudden >20mpg higher result from 2011/2012 to 2013. Neither does your answer help me better-understand what Nissan changed in the car.

Read your OP again. It appears to be asking how they boosted the EPA city number above the EPA highway number:

129 MPGe .... wow!

Oh wait.
FE.gov says that's city.
:-( Manufacturers should be required by law to reveal in their TV ads if they are advertising city or highway MPG. For me the "city" number is irrelevant (I don't drive through the city), and I look at the less impressive 102 highway figure.

Just curious: What did Nissan change to boost their city economy over 20 more MPGe?

thanks
:-D

As such, I don't think it's reasonable to climb down someone's throat for answering the question it appears you asked.

Anyway, I will point out that Nissan has done two things to boost the EPA city number in 2013 versus 2012:

1) They increased the OBC power from 3.3 kW to 6.0 kW. Since there is a constant-power load during charging, this reduces the amount of electricity drawn from the wall to recharge the car. The EPA efficiency numbers are based on wall energy, so this makes a real difference. (And, apparently, Nissan is not required to mention that the "S" trim level LEAF without the 6.0 kW charger cannot achieve the same level of efficiency.)

2) Nissan redesigned the motor in the LEAF for 2013. It seems clear to me that they optimized the new motor to provide a higher number on the EPA city cycle, even though this cycle is less useful to LEAF owners.

 

[surfingslovak]

1) They increased the OBC power from 3.3 kW to 6.0 kW. Since there is a constant-power load during charging, this reduces the amount of electricity drawn from the wall to recharge the car. The EPA efficiency numbers are based on wall energy, so this makes a real difference. (And, apparently, Nissan is not required to mention that the "S" trim level LEAF without the 6.0 kW charger cannot achieve the same level of efficiency.)

2) Nissan redesigned the motor in the LEAF for 2013. It seems clear to me that they optimized the new motor to provide a higher number on the EPA city cycle, even though this cycle is less useful to LEAF owners.

Yes, good points, both of these factors likely had an effect. Additionally, Nissan was forced to use a mix of 80% and 100% charging to determine the EPA range, and presumably other key figures. It's been documented that charging efficiency declines as you approach full charge. They may have gotten a lower EPA range than expected from this new regulation, but that in turn helped achieve a much higher MPGe number, which their advertising has apparently benefited from.

Please don't answer serious questions with BS answers.

Given your history on this forum, I'm a bit surprised that some of the regulars took this thread seriously enough to respond.

 

[theaveng]

]Read your OP again. It appears to be asking how they boosted the EPA city number above the EPA highway number:

Hmmm good point..... fixed.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't think they "redesigned the motor." They did change the programming for the controller unit that provides the motor with power, reducing torque and thus power consumption at a few speeds. This is also the first year for the heat pump, IIRC, and that makes a real difference in consumption with the heater on.

 

[RegGuheert]

I don't think they "redesigned the motor."

They redesigned the motor.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Any details on how it was redesigned? This is the first I remember reading of a physical redesign.

 

[LeftieBiker]

So they did. From Treehugger.com:

"There's a more bare-bone "S Grade" trim that is less expensive, a new electric motor that uses 40% less of the rare earth element dysprosium, the power electronics were redesigned and integrated for a 30% volume reduction and a 10% mass reduction, which, along with other weight reductions adds up to 80kg/176lbs. The trunk is also larger, going from 330L/11.65 cubic feet to 370L/13.06 cubic feet."

If you get the Bose stereo, though, you'll want to either remove the subwoofer box to take advantage of that extra room, or pretend they didn't add it...

 

[surfingslovak]

So they did.

Yes. Additionally, Nissan reduced the weight of the vehicle, mainly due to changes in battery packaging. Lower weight can certainly help improve efficiency in the stop-and-go city cycle.

 

[DaveEV]

Additionally, Nissan reduced the weight of the vehicle, mainly due to changes in battery packaging. Lower weight can certainly help improve efficiency in the stop-and-go city cycle.

Keep in mind that most of those weight losses didn't show up in the US model as apparently they don't have the capability to stamp aluminum panels here, so while the '11-12 LEAFs have aluminum hood and doors, the '13 has steel which is significantly heaver.

 

[Den]

That's not entirely true as there is still a small energy draw at idle. With a LeafDD, Lincomatic, Battery App, or the like you can see it... With CC and lights off, it is typically about 300 watts on my car...

The stop-and-go of the city cycle doesn't hurt mileage in an EV like it does an internal combustion vehicle - there's no penalty for "idling".

That's true. I have made a test... left my leaf turned on (with ligths) in garage for 15 hours... it lost 3 bars (about 5 kWh energy, carwings says 4,9kWh including 1,1km trip made before this). So it is really about 300 watts per hour (also dashboard says the same if you make a look). But that is quite small, that means full battery can keep leaf idle "on traffic lights" for 60 hours (2,5 24h-days).

 

[Den]

the '11-12 LEAFs have aluminum hood, doors and trunk

Where you got that info? Never heard about that...

 

[DaveEV]

the '11-12 LEAFs have aluminum hood, doors and trunk

Where you got that info? Never heard about that...

Just go check your car with a magnet. The trunk isn't aluminum, though, I was mistaken. Hood and doors are aluminum, though.

 

[surfingslovak]

the '11-12 LEAFs have aluminum hood, doors and trunk

Where you got that info? Never heard about that...

Just go check your car with a magnet. The trunk isn't aluminum, though, I was mistaken. Hood and doors are aluminum, though.

Yes, it's true. Thanks for pointing that out, drees. I believe the difference between 2012 and 2013 US LEAF is only about 50 lbs because of the change from aluminum to steel.

 

[Den]

the '11-12 LEAFs have aluminum hood, doors and trunk

Where you got that info? Never heard about that...

Just go check your car with a magnet. The trunk isn't aluminum, though, I was mistaken. Hood and doors are aluminum, though.

Thanks for the hint! But then also bumpers and charging port should be aluminium as they are also not magnetic

And trunk is really heavy and magnetic - I was just thinking about it - didn't never felt lighter than any others car trunk... but just checked doors they are really not magnetic and even feels somehow lighter if you pay attention to this (usually you don't in a case of door).

 

[garsh]

Read your OP again. It appears to be asking how they boosted the EPA city number above the EPA highway number:

Sorry, yes, that's how I read it. I didn't mean to start such a ruckus.