12V battery question

[ebeighe]

Any comments on this harbor freight charger?
https://www.harborfreight.com/4-amp-fully-automatic-microprocessor-controlled-battery-chargermaintainer-63350.html

I already have a Battery Tender 4 amp model similar to this one, but mine is apparently an older model that doesn't have the lithium switch https://www.batterytender.com/Battery-Tender-6V-12V-4A-Selectable-Lead-Acid-Lithium-Battery-ChargerBattery-Tender-6V-12V-4A-Select )

I'm wondering about the utility of desulfation?
I have a 5-year-old battery, the OEM battery. It is serviceable, and I have kept after it, adding distilled water regularly (some every 6 months?)
Still works fine, but hey it's 5 years old.
I can't help wondering if its relative longevity is due to being serviceable? (Rather than being "maintenance free", which seems like all of them are nowadays?)

 

[LeftieBiker]

I see no lithium battery option on the above charger. AGM and Gel are both types of lead-acid battery. And yes, your battery lasted because you were able to add water. Still, I would replace it before Winter.

 

[ebeighe]

I see no lithium battery option on the above charger...

just to clarify, the reference to lithium was just that the newer model of what i already have, a Deltran 3A Battery Tender; it wasn't part of the question.

My real question is would a de-sulphating charger, which my deltran Battery Tender doesn't have, extend the lifetime of a generic flooded lead battery in any meaningful way?

 

[ebeighe]

...And yes, your battery lasted because you were able to add water.

curious if any suggestions on where to get a NOT maintenance free battery? It seems where I've looked , they are all "maintenance-free", or at least all the "car" batteries.

 

[LeftieBiker]

My real question is would a de-sulphating charger, which my deltran Battery Tender doesn't have, extend the lifetime of a generic flooded lead battery in any meaningful way?

My guess would be "just a little" because you already get 5+ years from your batteries.

The only flooded cell starting battery that I know of is the Leaf's own OEM battery. I haven't looked for others, though.

 

[Nubo]

My real question is would a de-sulphating charger, which my deltran Battery Tender doesn't have, extend the lifetime of a generic flooded lead battery in any meaningful way?

In my opinion de-sulfating devices for car batteries are akin to "magic dust".

And adding water isn't a fountain of youth for lead-acid in general, it's just required maintenance for batteries that lose water. The longest-lasting car battery I ever had was a sealed Panasonic AGM that came with the car in 1990 and I replaced it sometime in or after 2002, iirc.

 

[LeftieBiker]

In the case of Leaf batteries, the loss of water is probably the biggest factor in them failing at the 3 year point. We have lots of examples here (I'm one) of a Leaf accessory battery that was getting weak, but recovered and lasted a few more years because distilled water was added. Mine took almost two cups. As for de-sulfating chargers, I think they may help in cases where the batteries are accumulating the stuff faster than usual because of chronic undercharging or excessive drains. I agree that they won't keep batteries going for longer than they were designed.

 

[ebeighe]

[EDIT: I did find the current part number, see post below]
Curiously, Nissan through their online parts finder claims they don't have any battery for leaf, says it's discontinued !!??
24410EL70A
https://nissan.oempartsonline.com/v-2017-nissan-leaf--s--electric/electrical--battery

 

[LeftieBiker]

Oh, well. It wasn't a great battery, but it was better than the cheapest "maintenance free" batteries. The best battery for a Leaf for less than $400 or so is an AGM car battery. They are more tolerant of not being fully charged than are standard lead-acid batteries. The best battery for warmer climates, if cost isn't an issue, is probably a lithium LiFePo4 (LFP) battery. If you have cold Winters, though, I suggest an AGM.

 

[ebeighe]

Oh, well. It wasn't a great battery, but it was better than the cheapest "maintenance free" batteries. The best battery for a Leaf for less than $400 or so is an AGM car battery. They are more tolerant of not being fully charged than are standard lead-acid batteries. The best battery for warmer climates, if cost isn't an issue, is probably a lithium LiFePo4 (LFP) battery. If you have cold Winters, though, I suggest an AGM.

Oops, I misled you the correct/current Nissan part is
999m1-nb51r
MSRP $160
https://parts.nissanusa.com/p/nissan__/GROUP-51R-BATTE/89935342/999M1-NB51R.html

 

[R1200RT]

I have a 2013 SL. I just replaced the factory battery last year (2021). I too was adding water every year. And that's a normal process for us here in TX due to the high heat causing the water in the battery to boil out. Last year around June, I tried to unlock the door with the FOB and it failed. I used the mechanical key and got the car unlocked. Tried to start the vehicle and no joy. Did not know the battery had failed, so I went and grabbed by DVM and measured 0V! Completely dead.

I tried to find a cheap flooded battery, the one with pop-up caps so I could continue refilling annually. I just do not see the point in spending too much money for a battery that main purpose is to power the computers, ie do not need something with high CCA etc....No starter motor. Ended up buying from Walmart Everstart Maxx battery, but it does not have removable caps (bummer). So hopefully this will last long in the TX heat without refilling.

 

[Stanton]

I tried to find a cheap flooded battery, the one with pop-up caps so I could continue refilling annually. I just do not see the point in spending too much money for a battery that main purpose is to power the computers, ie do not need something with high CCA etc....No starter motor. Ended up buying from Walmart Everstart Maxx battery, but it does not have removable caps (bummer). So hopefully this will last long in the TX heat without refilling.

The answer to your question is: Lithium (and I live in Texas). See sig.

 

[R1200RT]

I tried to find a cheap flooded battery, the one with pop-up caps so I could continue refilling annually. I just do not see the point in spending too much money for a battery that main purpose is to power the computers, ie do not need something with high CCA etc....No starter motor. Ended up buying from Walmart Everstart Maxx battery, but it does not have removable caps (bummer). So hopefully this will last long in the TX heat without refilling.

The answer to your question is: Lithium (and I live in Texas). See sig.

LOL, at $500 for the battery? No. I am not denying that the Lithium will likely last 10 years.....but.....

 

[Stanton]

The answer to your question is: Lithium (and I live in Texas). See sig.

LOL, at $500 for the battery? No. I am not denying that the Lithium will likely last 10 years.....but.....

You get what you pay for. So far my $500 has lasted almost 10 years. With the kinds of errors that weak/dead 12v batteries generate in EVs, I'd pay >>$50/year over getting stranded on the side of the road or (worse) an expensive trip to the dealer to diagnose a "phantom" problem.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The second best option for hotter climates is an AGM type lead-acid battery. The good brands are tougher, they seem to stay charged better in a Leaf, and they are less than half the price at least when on sale.

 

[TylerNV]

The answer to your question is: Lithium (and I live in Texas). See sig.

LOL, at $500 for the battery? No. I am not denying that the Lithium will likely last 10 years.....but.....

You get what you pay for. So far my $500 has lasted almost 10 years. With the kinds of errors that weak/dead 12v batteries generate in EVs, I'd pay >>$50/year over getting stranded on the side of the road or (worse) an expensive trip to the dealer to diagnose a "phantom" problem.

About your 12V lifepo4.. what size Ah are you running? Built in BMS on the battery? And how about the charging profile. How does the leaf manage that, as its quite different from FLA or AMG batteries. I have 2 spare AmpereTime 12V 200Ah batteries about 6 months old, but they are big!! Not sure if they'd fit under the hood.

 

[Stanton]

LOL, at $500 for the battery? No. I am not denying that the Lithium will likely last 10 years.....but.....

You get what you pay for. So far my $500 has lasted almost 10 years. With the kinds of errors that weak/dead 12v batteries generate in EVs, I'd pay >>$50/year over getting stranded on the side of the road or (worse) an expensive trip to the dealer to diagnose a "phantom" problem.

About your 12V lifepo4.. what size Ah are you running? Built in BMS on the battery? And how about the charging profile. How does the leaf manage that, as its quite different from FLA or AMG batteries. I have 2 spare AmpereTime 12V 200Ah batteries about 6 months old, but they are big!! Not sure if they'd fit under the hood.

Sorry for the delayed response: was on vacation! I'll try to answer all your questions.
I have a 20 AHr LiFePO4 with a built-in BMS (I think there are 4 cells). My battery was "built" as a lead-acid replacement, so the Leaf charging profile is just fine. Remember: you can discharge a Lithium battery much farther than a lead-acid without negative long-term affects. Not sure I would put such a large capacity 12v (200 AHr) in your car, especially when the idea is to decrease weight. My Lithium 12v is about half the weight (and much smaller) than the stock 12v battery; I put a (block of wood) spacer underneath it so I could still use the existing clamp/tray. You can find many Lithium replacements to fit in that tray.

 

[TylerNV]

You get what you pay for. So far my $500 has lasted almost 10 years. With the kinds of errors that weak/dead 12v batteries generate in EVs, I'd pay >>$50/year over getting stranded on the side of the road or (worse) an expensive trip to the dealer to diagnose a "phantom" problem.

About your 12V lifepo4.. what size Ah are you running? Built in BMS on the battery? And how about the charging profile. How does the leaf manage that, as its quite different from FLA or AMG batteries. I have 2 spare AmpereTime 12V 200Ah batteries about 6 months old, but they are big!! Not sure if they'd fit under the hood.

Sorry for the delayed response: was on vacation! I'll try to answer all your questions.
I have a 20 AHr LiFePO4 with a built-in BMS (I think there are 4 cells). My battery was "built" as a lead-acid replacement, so the Leaf charging profile is just fine. Remember: you can discharge a Lithium battery much farther than a lead-acid without negative long-term affects. Not sure I would put such a large capacity 12v (200 AHr) in your car, especially when the idea is to decrease weight. My Lithium 12v is about half the weight (and much smaller) than the stock 12v battery; I put a (block of wood) spacer underneath it so I could still use the existing clamp/tray. You can find many Lithium replacements to fit in that tray.

Yes.. My 200Ah is definitely overkill. I have several LifePo4 packs I've built over the years however, so I have spare cells lying around, mostly 100Ah and above though, and yes, you likely have a 4S pack. Typically, or at least I do charge to around 14.4V (BMS should cut charging switch at 14.6V) so I'd imagine as long as the leaf maintains the voltage somewhere between 12.4-12.8 and 14V everything should stay happy.