2 years 12 bars

[oakwcj]

I'm at 25 months, 13k miles, and 95.9% CAP. Oakland has an ideal climate for LEAFs and humans. BTW, Trinidad Bay and the nearby Patrick's Point State Park are gorgeous.

 

[PatricioEV]

Just for reference, I am at 20 months of ownership and I just lost my first bar right at 25,000 miles. It wasn't unexpected, but still sad. I haven't gone in for the latest software update yet. It'll be interesting to see if the car thinks it has more range after that update, as it noticeably thinks it has less range now that the 12 CB has gone away.

 

[edatoakrun]

I still have 12 capacity bars after ~19,300 North Valley/Intermountain miles and ~25 months from the build date.

I was looking forward to losing one this Spring or Summer, so that I could see just how inaccurate the bar loss would be as an indication of available battery capacity, but it is looking less and less like a sure thing as time passes.

="drees"
A few weeks over 2 years, 19.7k miles, 100% charge this morning yielded 245 GID and 57.85 Ah. Nearly exactly 3 months ago I had 260 GIDs 100% 214 GID 80%. Hard to believe that the GID reading is down almost 6% in 3 months in this coastal climate...

Not really, since the gid count and app-reported Ah both seem to reflect of battery temperature history, much more clearly than they track available battery capacity.

I don't have "true gid" readings, but my app-reported Ah records started begin with 57.87 ~10 weeks ago, subsequently increased by ~ 1 Ah, then decreased back to the present 57.37.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12098&start=50" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It will be interesting to see if the current cold wave will be significant enough to raise the AH number again.

="drees"
...Not all that surprisingly, Stoaty's LEAF Battery Degradation Model is nearly exactly in-line with real life measurement...

Not all that surprisingly, Stoaty's LEAF Battery Degradation Model is nearly exactly in-line with gid-meter and app-reported measurements, rather than reality, IMO.

="drees"
...Nearly always charged to 80% - charged to 100% typically 2-3 times on average. Have only QCd 3 times, never seen more than 6 TBs.

I probably charge to "80%" ~ 60% of the time, and "90%" (add ~1/2 hour) and "100% about 15% of the time each .

IIRC, I only saw 7 temp bars a few times over a hot July week in 2011. 6 bars is the norm from May to September, except for 5 bars on start-up, after the cooler nights.

10 QC's so far.

The first three, two to near to "100%" were the day before my first app reading, and the battery heating from those charges, as well as the several AC charges used to get the ~300 miles to the SF BayLEAFs meeting, may explain the (temporarily) low Ah from that report.

="drees"
...At this rate I expect to be down a bar by the end of summer. If not - it will be next spring once it starts warming up. Given how much I baby the car I didn't expect to be down 15% until 4 years at the soonest and I really expected to do significantly better than the 20% at 5 years and 30% at 8 Nissan gives as guidelines

I wouldn't say I "baby" My LEAF. Your guess is as good as mine as to when I will lose bars.

Due to the high peak temperatures but relatively low average ambient temperatures (I park in an open carport on the north side of my home), the relatively high percentage of capacity use, mountain driving at high kW rates and utilizing a large amount of regen fast charging that my LEAF experiences, I had a wide range of expectations for possible battery capacity loss.

So far, it seems to be close to the center of my expectation range, but until I can confirm a significant loss of capacity, I'd say that is a tentative conclusion.

I'm just glad that the range and recharge tests results from my LEAF indicate (so far) that I probably have little to worry about.

As I see it, It could actually benefit me if I lose capacity bars more quickly, as (unlikely as it seems now) I could actually still benefit from the capacity warrantee battery pack freshening.

IMO, the real bummer would be, if after 5 years or 60,00 miles, I really had lost anywhere near 30% of my available battery capacity, but Nissan would never have upgraded my battery pack under the warrantee, since it had not lost four capacity bars.

 

[WAM]

I still have 12 capacity bars after 2 years 1 month and about 10,500 miles. Moderate climate, lots of time in shady garage, rarely charge to 100% and have never used QC. I don't have any way to measure the "true" capacity, but there hasn't been a noticeable drop in the distance I can drive on and 80% charge.

 

[edatoakrun]

My guess is the substantial majority of 24 month lease Leafs will still have 12 bars.

We make a lot of noise about those who've lost capacity above norm.

Looks like 135 LEAFs have reported one or more bar loss, out of ~50,000+ LEAFs sold worldwide.

http://mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss#four_bars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, the actual number of LEAFs with capacity bar losses is surely far higher, by a factor of perhaps thee to five, would be my guess.

What is interesting is that the rate of reported first bar losses (as tabulated at the Wiki) is actually lower this year than last, despite the much higher numbers of LEAFs on the road.

Might be due to under-reporting being higher this year than last, or due to the disproportionate numbers of early LEAFs delivered to the hot and Warm climates of Arizona and Southern CA, or it might be due to some of the bar loss reports last year, like this one, being cases of over-reporting, due to premature observation...

#53 Jul 30, 2012 TonyWilliams San Diego, CA 25344 miles 14.5 months 02244 Jul 30, 2012 907-7839

 

[klapauzius]

~20,000 miles, 2.5 years and according to the ELM327 app @ 101.44 % or 67.21 Ah.

 

[Cinnabar]

25 months, 33K miles and still showing all twelve bars. Charge to 80% overnight and plug in again at work after my high speed 32 mile commute. About once a month I charge to 100% when I am going off the normal route.

 

[nosuchthing]

25 months, 33K miles and still showing all twelve bars. Charge to 80% overnight and plug in again at work after my high speed 32 mile commute. About once a month I charge to 100% when I am going off the normal route.

You are very close to losing the first CB...

 

[TLeaf]

30 months, 21K miles and all capacity bars here in the Pac NW.

 

[cwerdna]

Looks like 135 LEAFs have reported one or more bar loss, out of ~50,000+ LEAFs sold worldwide.

http://mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss#four_bars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, the actual number of LEAFs with capacity bar losses is surely far higher, by a factor of perhaps thee to five, would be my guess.

What is interesting is that the rate of reported first bar losses (as tabulated at the Wiki) is actually lower this year than last, despite the much higher numbers of LEAFs on the road.

The Leaf crossed the 25K unit threshold in the US. I suspect the VAST majority of Leaf owners outside the US aren't on MNL, esp. those from Japan, one of their biggest markets.

But yes, I'm sure the capacity bar loser numbers are much higher, but probably higher than a factor of 5 due to the above. Heck, we sometimes can't even get people who complain about range issues to tell us how many capacity bars they lost (sometimes, it turns to be out 0). In another case, we had a guy here claim he went from 10 capacity bars, to 6, and then returned to 12, :? after the recent capacity gauge update. Of course, there are no pics of the 10 and 6 bars. :roll:

Summer literally just started a few ago as opposed to us being at the end of summer. Also, some who have lost a significant # of capacity bars have dumped their Leafs and some have had them bought back.

I suspect that due to the Phoenix publicity, some folks who might otherwise consider a Leaf in a hot climate have decided to not get a Leaf at all.

 

[TurboFroggy]

2 years, 25K miles, 12 bars, 95.6% capacity. QCd 100's of times back to back on long trips. At one point touched 10 temp bars.
Spends most of it's time charged to 80% via timer and a light 28 mile round trip commute and usually 5 temp bars.
Occasionally charged to 100% on the weekend but manually and rarely.
I love living in the beautiful Pacific Northwest, perfect climate for batteries.

 

[Becky50]

Love the positive post! Only 6,000 miles at 10 months ownership. The LEAF is meeting all of my expectations and my research leads me to believe it will continue to do just that for years to come. Powered by our solar panels in the beautiful SF Bay Area.

 

[DaveEV]

...Not all that surprisingly, Stoaty's LEAF Battery Degradation Model is nearly exactly in-line with real life measurement...

Not all that surprisingly, Stoaty's LEAF Battery Degradation Model is nearly exactly in-line with gid-meter and app-reported measurements, rather than reality, IMO.

Currently both the car readings, Stoaty's model and reality match. All are down a bit over 10%. Ah reading is about 88%, Stoaty's model predicts about 88% at 2 years for me, and my wall energy measurements are also down about 12%. (< 22 kWh from turtle to 100%).

Not sure why you keep on insisting otherwise. Please don't follow up with a 5-page reply with crazy quoting - they are impossible to follow.

 

[Valdemar]

I'm down to 11 bars as of last weekend. CB s/w update isn't done, but I'm not expecting to get the bar back based on first reports. 31k miles, almost 22 months ownership, manufactured 7/11. Use end of charge timer set to close to departure time in the morning almost exclusively since 7 months of ownership. 100% charges about 2 times a week, rest is 80%. Never left sitting at high SOC. Maybe 20 quick charges overall, a couple of times 3x daily but temp stayed at 7 bar or lower. Hoped to get through the summer with all bars but no such luck. Oh well, still not too bad considering the mileage and the climate.

 

[ERG4ALL]

25,000 miles, 27-1/2 mo., 12 Bars

 

[RegGuheert]

We have owned our 2011 LEAF for only 15+ months, but it was assembled over two years ago on June 15, 2011. When we purchased it, the car was a six-month-old demo LEAF with 2011 miles. I consider it likely that it had sat at 100% SOC for its entire life at the dealership, but fortunately, that was mostly during the cold winter months.

We currently have ~11,800 miles and still have all 12 capacity bars. Stoaty's spreadsheet estimates that our battery capacity should be down about 10% from new and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that is, in fact, the case.

 

[cdub]

2 years, 12 bars, 25k miles for me too. I charge to 80% every night and have a short 30 mile round trip commute. Sometimes charge to 100% on the weekends.

2 weekends ago I QC'd on Saturday AND Sunday for the first time. That was cool.

 

[edatoakrun]

...Not all that surprisingly, Stoaty's LEAF Battery Degradation Model is nearly exactly in-line with real life measurement...

Not all that surprisingly, Stoaty's LEAF Battery Degradation Model is nearly exactly in-line with gid-meter and app-reported measurements, rather than reality, IMO.

Currently both the car readings, Stoaty's model and reality match. All are down a bit over 10%. Ah reading is about 88%, Stoaty's model predicts about 88% at 2 years for me, and my wall energy measurements are also down about 12%. (< 22 kWh from turtle to 100%)...

OK, lets discuss some reality.

In your previous post, you stated:

...A few weeks over 2 years, 19.7k miles, 100% charge this morning yielded 245 GID and 57.85 Ah. Nearly exactly 3 months ago I had 260 GIDs 100% 214 GID 80%. Hard to believe that the GID reading is down almost 6% in 3 months in this coastal climate. Not all that surprisingly, Stoaty's LEAF Battery Degradation Model is nearly exactly in-line with real life measurements...

So, are you saying your "wall" measured kWh capacity dropped only ~6% during your first 21 months of ownership, and then another ~6% in just the last three months, matching the reduction in "gids" you posted above?

That would not seem to me to match Stoaty's LEAF Battery Degradation Model.

I'd suggest this discussion move to a more appropriate thread:

Collecting data:Off-the-wall power for turtle to 100% charge
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=6876&start=210" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We have both posted our previous VLBW to "100%" recharge capacity observations there, and the comparison of two LEAFs with similar use histories and app-reported battery capacities is very informative, IMO

 

[bytrain]

27 months. 25,000 miles. No bars lost here in Sacramento. At home, I only charge after 1am. At work, I begin my charge at 7am. 95% of the time, I only charge to 80% SOC. I'm not going to worry about the new software because I'll be turning the car in 9 months from now. Likely for a 2014 LEAF

 

[TomT]

Since the first bar is so wide, you really have no way to know what your loss is without some form of Gid meter. Remember that the 12th bar (15%) equals more then two of any of the other bars (6.25%) in capacity... You could be right at a 15% loss and not yet know it based only on capacity bars...

27 months. 25,000 miles. No bars lost here in Sacramento. At home, I only charge after 1am. At work, I begin my charge at 7am. 95% of the time, I only charge to 80% SOC. I'm not going to worry about the new software because I'll be turning the car in 9 months from now. Likely for a 2014 LEAF