2013 Battery Bars half way

[society]

OK everyone -
Original owner
San Francisco City resident, full term thus far

Although it says 47mi range at full 100% - it's more like 23, cause you know... 47 looks better? (mileage shown may differ from actual) :lol:

I've loved my leaf from day one, but that love is ending. This car has had more problems than any other car I've ever owned, I've gotten probably 6 random requests from lawyers to sue Nissan because of this car and never did it. Now I'm wishing I had, because it's nearly useless after 50k miles. But.....I also understand that as an early adopter, I'm taking on more risk of unproven technology. I had always hoped that one day, the tech would update, and I'd be able to just swap out v1 with v2. Doesn't seem to have transpired that way. Not sure I want to dump 7k into an older vehicle for the same range and future longevity. (replace batteries)

So my question :

What's the consensus for the projected longevity of this new + range leaf? haha

https://photos.app.goo.gl/tzUbG8FxZTbQHUo27

 

[cwerdna]

Ouch! Has the car always resided in the city of SF?

From your delivery date, you have the early crap batteries. My 5/2013 '13 Leaf (I bought used in July 2015) is still at 11 bars w/Leaf Spy SOH now at around 79.9ish% and past 68K miles. I live and work in a MUCH hotter part of the Bay Area (e.g. on summer days, it could be 90+ F down here while below 70 F in SF).

1st bar for me went away in Nov 2017: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=511915#p511915. I need to check stats about at what SOH people tend to lose their 2nd bar, but I wouldn't be surprised that happens by end of Oct 2020.

Of course, back in 2013, there was no way to know that Nissan quietly improved the batteries and when...

Mods: Maybe this can be merged into the 2013 to 2014 capacity bar losses thread?

 

[alozzy]

In case you want to investigate upgrade options, here's a FB page that maintains a list of installers:

https://bit.ly/2P08neP

It's not super obvious, but you need to click on the "See more" link in the top most post to reveal the full list.

In your area, looks like these guys are about it: https://www.acehybridgroup.com/copy-of-honda

Scroll to the bottom of that page for the two Nissan LEAF listings

Someone on these forums posted a list of installers too, but it may have just been a repost of what's on that FB page.

 

[flydiver]

See this is only your 2nd post. Maybe you've been lurking awhile.
There are big difference between battery generations. There is also significant difference in battery care, and opinions on battery care.
One of the worst things for the battery is extended time at full charge, especially in heat.

Have you had other issues besides the battery degradation? You make it sound like the whole car is a lemon.

 

[cwerdna]

Re: lawyers, I've received a few pieces of random bulk junk mail from law firms re: Leaf repairs, some of which are amusing (e.g. wrong model year, symptoms that don't apply to EVs, etc.) I still have some of them but I don't recall personally receiving any that relate to battery degradation though.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

My Chicago based Leaf lost its first bar after just over 5 years. With 11 bars, you could do 80 conservative miles with the car vs about 100 new (i even made the 100 mile and q20 mile club).

After year 1, we charged to 100% every night, not knowing better.

As experience was very good, we upgraded to a Plus..well a pair of them actually.

Sorry to hear you battery didn't fair as well. Curious as to your charging habits. The mileage matters less except of you did many dc charges.

I would read up on the 62kWh and Plus threads to see our experiences. I just did a 232 mile run on a charge this past weekend on my S+ which included significant freeway driving. (I consider myself a relatively conservative driver, but a good ev driver).

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
You mean 62 kWh?

From the OP's delivery date, it's almost 100% certain it was built before 4/2013. Seems like '13 Leafs built before 4/2013 had batteries just as bad as '11 and '12 model years. And yes, if the OP had charging habits that were bad for the battery (e.g. charging to 100% all the time and leaving it there for extended periods), that would further hasten its demise.

I'm still at 11 bars (soon to be 10) and my used 5/2013 built '13 Leaf has passed 7 years since original in-service date which began in late June 2013 by the previous unknown person who leased it.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

what pushed us to upgrade was in the winter of early 2019, when it hit -27F the cold took our Leaf range down to maybe 35 miles (one trip downtown and back with a small buffer). I didn't want my wife or kids to be at risk, so took the plunge on a new one.

A year later I dont know if the tech package was worth it. Propilot is nice, but I rarely use it, unless trying to eat while driving. The safety features are nice though.

If eNiro had come to the Midwest, we would have considered it. We didn't like the Bolt and csrgo was too small. My wife doesn't like driving Teslas after her test drives.

 

[society]

FIrst off - thanks for all the responses!

^^^
it's almost 100% certain it was built before 4/2013. Seems like '13 Leafs built before 4/2013 had batteries just as bad as '11 and '12 model years. And yes, if the OP had charging habits that were bad for the battery (e.g. charging to 100% all the time and leaving it there for extended periods), that would further hasten its demise.

Just looked at the date code - 1/13.
Yes I charged back to 100% all the time - who wouldn't? I didnt know about the 80% rule until I started looking around this place. Thats crazy, having to charge your car to a certain % in order to have a legitimate EOL! Super upset @ Nissan right now.

See this is only your 2nd post. Maybe you've been lurking awhile.
Have you had other issues besides the battery degradation? You make it sound like the whole car is a lemon.

Yep - lurker. SF city only, so very cool here. Rarely over 80 degree F.
Other issues I've had: maybe 4 recalls? cant remember. Aside form that : USB port died, driver door handle is still hanging off, seatbelt in back got stuck and had to be replaced, 2 keyfobs died (only bought 1 more), tires wore out before 30k, Axle 'clicking' problem, AC hose bad.

 

[cwerdna]

I'm guessing you didn't get down to 8 capacity bars before the 5 year/60K mile capacity warranty expiration?

Just looked at the date code - 1/13.
Yes I charged back to 100% all the time - who wouldn't? I didnt know about the 80% rule until I started looking around this place. Thats crazy, having to charge your car to a certain % in order to have a legitimate EOL! Super upset @ Nissan right now.

I knew about high SoC being bad for li-ion batteries for ages. There were warnings all over the place in the '11 and '12 Leaf manual. '13 Leaf SV and SL even added an extra long-life mode toggle so you didn't have to use the timers to charge to 80% only.

On page EV-24 of the '13 Leaf manual (https://www.nissanusa.com/content/dam/Nissan/us/manuals-and-guides/leaf/2013/2013-Nissan-LEAF-owner-manual.pdf) there are all sorts of hints to not charge above 80% unless you need to. See https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=498123#p498123 or the manual.

In 2010 at http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/power-manager-on-non-thinkpads-similar-tool-on-other-brands.478664/, I was looking to see if any non-Lenovo laptops had a power manager UI like at https://web.archive.org/web/20071229031550/http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=52 (images all broken) that let you control how high you could charge your laptop like my 2007 vintage ThinkPad T61p had. I've since then only still bought Lenovos due to this feature

Many other EV makers have added UI to let you control how full to charge and/or advise against charging to full unless you need to, sometimes via UI affordances. I believe Tesla Model S and beyond have ALWAYS had such UI.

Elon for his cars used to say 80% to 30%: https://insideevs.com/news/341423/teslas-new-stance-on-charging-habits-elon-responds-video/ (see tweets in the piece).

Other issues I've had: maybe 4 recalls? cant remember. Aside form that : USB port died, driver door handle is still hanging off, seatbelt in back got stuck and had to be replaced, 2 keyfobs died (only bought 1 more), tires wore out before 30k, Axle 'clicking' problem, AC hose bad.

Other than tire wear, never had any of these problem on my former leased for 2 years '13 Leaf nor my owned '13 Leaf that I bought used in 2015.

I turned in my 2 year leased '13 w/enough tread to not be dinged by NMAC. But yeah, they probably wouldn't have it made it to 30K miles and definitely not 36K miles. My used '13 with under 24K miles had 3 very worn tires that I replaced immediately. If you do a lot of stop and go driving w/turns, you'll wear them out MUCH faster than driving w/little of that. (And yes, I don't like driving in SF.)

This guy with his 130 mile/day commute went 93K (!) miles on the original tires.
https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=461484#p461484
https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14580&p=332443&hilit=tires#p332443

I commented at https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=461583#p461583.

Is yours an S trim? If so, this came up re: a broken AC pipe: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/MC-10091563-2280.pdf https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/116669/1vb31.

 

[society]

I'm guessing you didn't get down to 8 capacity bars before the 5 year/60K mile capacity warranty expiration?

I knew about high SoC being bad for li-ion batteries for ages. There were warnings all over the place in the '11 and '12 Leaf manual. '13 Leaf SV and SL even added an extra long-life mode toggle so you didn't have to use the timers to charge to 80% only.

On page EV-24 of the '13 Leaf manual (https://www.nissanusa.com/content/dam/Nissan/us/manuals-and-guides/leaf/2013/2013-Nissan-LEAF-owner-manual.pdf) there are all sorts of hints to not charge above 80% unless you need to. See https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=498123#p498123 or the manual.

Elon for his cars used to say 80% to 30%: https://insideevs.com/news/341423/teslas-new-stance-on-charging-habits-elon-responds-video/ (see tweets in the piece).

Is yours an S trim? If so, this came up re: a broken AC pipe: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/MC-10091563-2280.pdf https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/116669/1vb31.

All very interesting, if I decide to replace the battery packs , I'll be sure to follow along with the advice. TBH - paying 8k for new batteries is a lot cheaper than paying 26k for a new car, and theres pretty much zero maintenance. It's going to be a tough decision on how to move forward. Cars dont mean much to me in life, so I'll probably end up replacing, because nothing wrong with it other wise. Maybe brakes in the next few years?

Yes its an 'S'. The AC pipe was replaced under this recall. Twice actually. So maybe this link you shared is the reason why.

Love the 80% charge feature - I didnt even know that was there, just went to go look for it. Although Elon says 90 - hmmm...

The 5 years ran out before I hit 8 bars, I think. That was three years ago, so who knows..... I've never had to be worried about these things.

Thanks again for all your input! Super Helpful.

 

[cwerdna]

All very interesting, if I decide to replace the battery packs , I'll be sure to follow along with the advice. TBH - paying 8k for new batteries is a lot cheaper than paying 26k for a new car, and theres pretty much zero maintenance. It's going to be a tough decision on how to move forward. Cars dont mean much to me in life, so I'll probably end up replacing, because nothing wrong with it other wise. Maybe brakes in the next few years?

Paying $8K for a battery pack means you'll still have a used car that is almost completely or is completely out of warranty. You could hit some expensive failures like the on-board charger (if it's more than a blown diode), heater or brake booster/master cylinder (https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21203). I found a pointer to more examples at https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=456812#p456812.

Although not as expensive, it seems like I'm going to likely need to replace my two rear shocks: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=587134#p587134. One of them was visibly leaving oil spots in my garage.

When I took it to the dealer for the bonding plate service campaign and the stupid "required" annual battery check, they came back and told me that my rear shock back there is blown so I'd need to replace both. Service droid said he was surprised I wasn't hearing loud noises back there. He said his did that and he got them replaced.

One can get a couple year old Leafs for a lot less than $15K. I'm sure one can pick up a new 40 kWh Leaf for well under $26K after $7500 Federal tax credit, $2K CVRP (if you qualify) and $800 PG&E clean fuel rebate (https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/solar-and-vehicles/options/clean-vehicles/electric/clean-fuel-rebate-for-electric-vehicles-faq.page). If you haven't applied for the last one on your current Leaf, may as well do so while you still have it.

Take a look at https://electrek.co/best-electric-vehicle-prices/ and subtract $7500 Federal tax credit on non-GM and non-Teslas, assuming you have at least $7500 of Federal tax liability this year.

Heck, one can get EPA range rating of 238 mile used 2017 Bolts for $17K or so: https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?mdId=36274172&mkId=20053&page=1&perPage=20&rd=99999&searchSource=SORT&sort=price-lowest&stkTypId=28881&zc=94016. At least there are still some warranties left (e.g. 8 years/100K miles on the EV bits and battery pack from original in service date).

 

[HiloLeaf]

I have a 2012 leaf that has a similar story. Fell below 9 bars a few weeks after the warranty expired. Nissan said tough luck. We only charged at night (air temps 65-70F). Only changed to 80%. Didn't matter to degradation. Lost another bar last year. Looked into battery replacements and the cost far exceeded the market value for the car. Now with less than 60,000 miles on the vehicle and 7 bars, hoping to get a couple more years out of the car for local commuting (functional range about 30 miles). Not optimistic thought. Just back from the Nissan dealership because of red air bag warning light. Apparently, we need to purchase a $2,600 sensor replacement if we want working air bags. Trade in value for the car is about $2,000 with functioning airbags. I think the only choice now is to drive it until an expensive but essential repair comes along, at which time we will donate to the community college auto shop.

Great on folks who have had positive experiences with the Leaf. Personally, I would never, ever, ever buy another Nissan - EV or ICE. I tell anyone who will listen to stay clear of Nissan - such better options from other manufacture of EVs. Regarding a battery replacement for your 2013, don't do it. Yes - heartbreaking to have an overall fairly new car that doesn't really belong outside of a museum. But there are expensive repairs lurking (these are not Toyota WRT reliability!). And if you get into an accident and your car + new battery is totaled (meaning damage exceeds the $2,000 trade in value), insurance will happily write you a check and then sell your battery.

Bottom line, Nissan has made it clear to me that it doesn't care one lick for the early adopters who bought their 2011 and 2012 model year Leaf cars. I know I dropped way too much money on a car that has way undelivered with regards to battery performance and on a company that has way underperformed with regards to customer service.