2013 LEAF Specs, Pricing, Options Released In Japan

[mkjayakumar]

I bought a $40 per 200 MB Euro package from AT&T, when I went to Europe, and that saved me big bucks. And the signals, (3G only) throughout were pretty good, in London, France, Belgium, Germany, Swiss and Italy.

 

[fotajoye]

I visited the Nissan battery plant in Yokohama today and had an interesting tour of the manufacturing facility. We had a long discussion about the Mk2 LEAF battery and in a nutshell the new battery has been redesigned to save weight and cost but is functionally identical to the Mk1 battery.

Do you know if the modules are welded or do they use a connector to tie the modules together?; also did you notice if the modules are the same number, same as the Mk1?; lastly, this is a Japanese-built battery; will the U.S. battery contain the same modules?

 

[Stoaty]

I visited the Nissan battery plant in Yokohama today and had an interesting tour of the manufacturing facility. We had a long discussion about the Mk2 LEAF battery and in a nutshell the new battery has been redesigned to save weight and cost but is functionally identical to the Mk1 battery.

And this functionally identical battery is going to power the Leaf to a 15% better range, as has been hinted at from the Japanese tests??? Sounds like whatever the tests say, the actual range will be perhaps 5% better. If it is more than that, I will suspect the difference in EPA test procedures is the source of the (imagined) improvement.

 

[evnow]

And this functionally identical battery is going to power the Leaf to a 15% better range, as has been hinted at from the Japanese tests??? Sounds like whatever the tests say, the actual range will be perhaps 5% better. If it is more than that, I will suspect the difference in EPA test procedures is the source of the (imagined) improvement.

Wonder how much the heat pump will save. With the heater in cold weather, it is easy to lose 20 miles (driving for 2 hours @ 3kW).

 

[LEAFfan]

I visited the Nissan battery plant in Yokohama today and had an interesting tour of the manufacturing facility. We had a long discussion about the Mk2 LEAF :roll: battery and in a nutshell the new battery has been redesigned to save weight and cost but is functionally identical to the Mk1 battery.

And this functionally identical battery is going to power the Leaf to a 15% better range, as has been hinted at from the Japanese tests??? Sounds like whatever the tests say, the actual range will be perhaps 5% better. If it is more than that, I will suspect the difference in EPA test procedures is the source of the (imagined) improvement.

It isn't just the pack that will improve the mileage, but the less overall weight of the car, more efficient motor and drivetrain, and the extra regen. :roll: I'm willing to bet an EPA of 83-84.

 

[Stoaty]

It isn't just the pack that will improve the mileage, but the less overall weight of the car, more efficient motor and drivetrain, and the extra regen. :roll: I'm willing to bet an EPA of 83-84.

As I recall the motor in current Leaf is pretty efficient already. How much are they going to improve that and the drivetrain? Unless you use a lot of regen stopping, extra isn't going to make a lot of difference. If the regen is a lot more efficient, that would be a different matter. I remain unconvinced. My prediction is EPA 78, unless the 5 cycle test gives higher numbers than the 2 cycle test with the fudge factor.

 

[surfingslovak]

My prediction is EPA 78, unless the 5 cycle test gives higher numbers than the 2 cycle test with the fudge factor.

My guess is as good as yours, but based on the 82-mile range EPA rated Honda Fit EV at, and 76-mile range for Ford Focus Electric, I'm leaning towards an 80+ mile range on the new test cycle.

 

[Stoaty]

My guess is as good as yours, but based on the 82-mile range EPA rated Honda Fit EV at, and 76-mile range for Ford Focus Electric, I'm leaning towards an 80+ mile range on the new test cycle.

Are you suggesting that the new test cycle gives higher numbers, and that a new 2012 Leaf would score higher than 73 miles of range on the 5 cycle test? I'm asking because I remain skeptical about how much real improvement in range the 2013 Leaf will have.

 

[RegGuheert]

As I recall the motor in current Leaf is pretty efficient already. How much are they going to improve that and the drivetrain?

I agree that it was already efficient. But I seem to recall the peak efficiency in the LEAF drivetrain occurred at around 40 mph. I suspect that the motor design has bifurcated into two different versions: one optimized for lower speeds like the current LEAF for the Japanese market and one optimized for higher speeds for the US market. If such a change were made, I would think we could get 2 to 4 extra miles at highway speeds. (This is pure speculation on the part of Reg. It is not based on anything I heard from Nissan.)

 

[surfingslovak]

Are you suggesting that the new test cycle gives higher numbers, and that a new 2012 Leaf would score higher than 73 miles of range on the 5 cycle test?

Yes, exactly. There might be some additional slight improvement from the weight savings, the heat pump and all the other tweaks.

 

[surfingslovak]

But I seem to recall the peak efficiency in the LEAF drivetrain occurred at around 40 mph.

While this might be true for the drivetrain, I don't have any numbers to say anything in support of this statement or against it, we have found empirically that the peak driving efficiency is somewhere between 12 and 19 mph.

 

[OrientExpress]

I visited the Nissan battery plant in Yokohama today and had an interesting tour of the manufacturing facility. We had a long discussion about the Mk2 LEAF battery and in a nutshell the new battery has been redesigned to save weight and cost but is functionally identical to the Mk1 battery.

Do you know if the modules are welded or do they use a connector to tie the modules together?; also did you notice if the modules are the same number, same as the Mk1?; lastly, this is a Japanese-built battery; will the U.S. battery contain the same modules?

The flat modules have a connector inside each can, and they are the same number as the Mk1. The first American battery will be the same as the JDM Mk2 battery. I have a bunch of close ups of the new battery and will post them when I get back.

 

[RegGuheert]

While this might be true for the drivetrain, I don't have any numbers to say anything in support of this statement or against it, we have found empirically that the peak driving efficiency is somewhere between 12 and 19 mph.

Thanks! I think the point is the same: Moving the peak efficiency to higher speeds can improve highway efficiency.

 

[Stoaty]

I agree that it was already efficient. But I seem to recall the peak efficiency in the LEAF drivetrain occurred at around 40 mph. I suspect that the motor design has bifurcated into two different versions: one optimized for lower speeds like the current LEAF for the Japanese market and one optimized for higher speeds for the US market. If such a change were made, I would think we could get 2 to 4 extra miles at highway speeds.

Are you suggesting that slow drivers (such as myself) will have to speed up in order to get more range from the 2013 Leaf?

 

[surfingslovak]

Thanks! I think the point is the same: Moving the peak efficiency to higher speeds can improve highway efficiency.

Right. To be clear, you likely mean motor and drivetrain efficiency only, correct? There are no apparent changes to aerodynamics, and the slight weight savings won't impact freeway driving much. The heat pump though will. If I recall correctly, the EPA test cycle runs the heater for a bit.

 

[RegGuheert]

Are you suggesting that slow drivers (such as myself) will have to speed up in order to get more range from the 2013 Leaf?

No, but such a change could slightly lower efficiency at slower speeds.

Right. To be clear, you likely mean motor and drivetrain efficiency only, correct?

Yes. I'm referring to drivetrain efficiency. I'll post the link here if I can find it again.

 

[ht2]

Range is improved from 200km to 228km in JC08 test cycle.

Quick JC08 search result:
The test represents driving in congested city traffic, including idling periods and frequently alternating acceleration and deceleration. Measurement is made twice, with a cold start and with a warm start. The test is used for emission measurement and fuel economy determination, for gasoline and diesel vehicles.
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/cycles/jp_jc08.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[surfingslovak]

Range is improved from 200km to 228km in JC08 test cycle.

Quick JC08 search result:
The test represents driving in congested city traffic, including idling periods and frequently alternating acceleration and deceleration. Measurement is made twice, with a cold start and with a warm start. The test is used for emission measurement and fuel economy determination, for gasoline and diesel vehicles.
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/cycles/jp_jc08.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's a low-speed cycle. Only about 1.5 minutes are spent at 50 mph, about as much time at 40 mph, and lots of time between 20 and 25 mph.

 

[RegGuheert]

Right. To be clear, you likely mean motor and drivetrain efficiency only, correct?

Yes. I'm referring to drivetrain efficiency. I'll post the link here if I can find it again.

Here is the link to the powertrain efficiency plot: Nissan LEAF Drive Train. The efficiency plot is on page 4.

Looking at this further, I have to conclude that the peak efficiencies of 95% occur at between 6000 and 7000 RPM, which should be right at highway speeds, so I don't think there is any shifting UP that could be done to help the US. Frankly, they COULD shift it down some to help with the low-speed cycles a little. Increasing efficiency above 95% will give marginal improvement, at best.

 

[evnow]

That's a low-speed cycle. Only about 1.5 minutes are spent at 50 mph, about as much time at 40 mph, and lots of time between 20 and 25 mph.

Yes, but it is a apples to apples comparison. So, there is some 10% improvement in th Japanese cycle - we just don't know how that will translate here.

But here, we also have the 2cycle + adjustment to 5 cycle change. So, the change here won't be all that clear to us.