2013 Mar Plugin Sales Discussion : Leaf 2,236 ! ; Volt 1,478

[cwerdna]

You all know that Tesla superchargers are free, right? They are built with the money from car sales. I doubt it is the right model but who knows. People are okay paying for fuel - they have been doing that for years. ...

But, Tesla hasn't turned a profit once yet.

The figure at http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2013/02/20/tesla-motors-deficit-passes-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; of them accumulating more than $1 billion in losses so far sounds about right...

 

[TomT]

Neither has Nissan on the Leaf. If the Leaf was a single product from a standalone company, it would be hemorrhaging billions... Nissan is large enough that they can hide that among all their other ventures and absorb it, but it doesn't change the fact and likely won't for many years.

But, Tesla hasn't turned a profit once yet.

 

[evnow]

Neither has Nissan on the Leaf. If the Leaf was a single product from a standalone company, it would be hemorrhaging billions...

Google would be hemorrhaging billions if Android is the single product from it.

 

[mkjayakumar]

it is so silly and a bit juvenile to complain or to even point out that Tesla hasn't made profit. They have just now - a few months ago - started shipping their first product (Roadster cannot even be considered as real production vehicle, more like a proof of concept), after having spent billions in establishing their manufacturing, R&D etc.. for years.

This is almost as silly as saying the first Volt lost over a billion dollars because it took that much to produce it.

 

[cwerdna]

You all know that Tesla superchargers are free, right? They are built with the money from car sales. I doubt it is the right model but who knows. People are okay paying for fuel -

it is so silly and a bit juvenile to complain or to even point out that Tesla hasn't made profit. They have just now - a few months ago - started shipping their first product (Roadster cannot even be considered as real production vehicle, more like a proof of concept), after having spent billions in establishing their manufacturing, R&D etc.. for years.

Silly or juvenile? I was merely responding to davidcary's comment.

I think people are forgetting that Tesla started in 2003 per http://www.teslamotors.com/about" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It's not like they started just a few years ago.

Sure w/the Roadster they bought the gliders from Lotus and didn't have to do stamping or most of the other work associated w/building a car from scratch but it certainly wasn't a prototype either. They built over 2K units. It was fully street legal and met FMVSS (except for the advanced airbag waiver) and DOT regulations.

Neither has Nissan on the Leaf. If the Leaf was a single product from a standalone company, it would be hemorrhaging billions...

Google would be hemorrhaging billions if Android a single product from it.

But Google and Nissan have many other revenue and profit streams and are solidly and consistently net profitable.

I wish I had the URL to an article I read a few years ago (probably from C&D) that basically said that any automaker can make a great car for (insert large amount of $ here). But key is that they have to compromise to balance the price/costs so it's competitive w/other cars in its segment and so that they can sell enough to be profitable. I see Tesla providing what by most accounts is an excellent product but it's not clear that what they're doing and their promises are sustainable, esp. when they missed (been late) w/many of their promises so far.

 

[evnow]

But Google and Nissan have many other revenue and profit streams and are solidly and consistently net profitable.

Yes - that is the reason there have been no successful auto companies launched in the last few decades. It is just too damn costly to make a car and then sell it profitably.

BTW, even Amazon took a very long time to become profitable (8 years).

 

[adric22]

Neither has Nissan on the Leaf. If the Leaf was a single product from a standalone company, it would be hemorrhaging billions... Nissan is large enough that they can hide that among all their other ventures and absorb it, but it doesn't change the fact and likely won't for many years.

But, Tesla hasn't turned a profit once yet.

Also worth pointing out that Nissan already has a network of dealers and factories. So it costs a lot less to produce an extra model of vehicle than it does to start a whole new car company. I'm honestly surprised that Tesla was not bought up as a sub-brand of some other car company.

 

[davidcary]

Of course Tesla hasn't made money. I was just pointing out that their model was free superchargers. They way overcharge for everything else to make up for it.

While Tesla is a standalone, I was surprised myself to see 2 of the biggest share holders - Toyota and MB - 5% each. While Toyota doesn't need the car for CAFE use, MB certainly might. Even if Tesla losses money in 3 years, MB can buy controlling shares to balance their cars. I always thought it made more sense for Porsche to buy Tesla - 20 mpg 911s balanced with EVs. Even if the EV's lose $10k per car, you can make $20k on a 911....

But either way, reportedly Tesla has an excellent margin per car, something like 20%. The loss is on the build up of a network.

 

[Zythryn]

You all know that Tesla superchargers are free, right? ...

Very few companies start making a profit from day one. Especially in the auto industry!
The question is will they be able to with their business model.
Oh look! They now have
http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-s-sales-exceed-target" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[RegGuheert]

Very few companies start making a profit from day one. Especially in the auto industry!
The question is will they be able to with their business model.
Oh look! They now have
http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-s-sales-exceed-target" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...and they have dropped the 40 kWh battery option.

 

[Stanton]

...and they have dropped the 40 kWh battery option.

Just saw that: very smart move. Regardless of your product, you should emphasize your competitive advantage(s). One of Tesla's is battery pack size/range and they're obviously going to ride that advantage as far as they can (pun intended).

 

[Jay]

No joke, Mar numbers come out on 1st Apr. Feb numbers are in brackets...

Random FYI, just in case people were looking for data today, most if not all, are moving this to April 2nd (because of the holiday) even though it is on all the economic calendars for today. We can pencil in Tesla for 2,150 for March though, as Tesla reported 4,750+ for the quarter, (=

Here is GM's press release:
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2013/Mar/0325_March-Sales.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


GM to Host U.S. Vehicle Sales Conference Call on April 2
DETROIT – General Motors Co. (NYSE: GM) will hold a conference call for securities analysts and media to review its March 2013 U.S. sales results on Tuesday, April 2 at 11 a.m. EDT. A press release and supporting material will be posted to GM’s media website, http://media.gm.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and its Investor Relations website, http://investor.gm.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, approximately one hour prior to the call.

Also, we confirmed with a Nissan rep that sales would be tomorrow.

 

[Reddy]

Given the number of new threads on MNL about leasing questions about how good is this deal, I think we will see a LOT of Leafs sold, maybe even 2000. April should be another interesting month as well. Lot of interest in the "S" and the lower lease prices. People are starting to say, "Hmmm, should I continue to spend $250-$300/mo in gas, or get a brand new Nissan Leaf. Decisions!"

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

188 LEAFs sold in Western WA in March. #1 sales for Nissan nameplate

 

[LEAFfan]

Given the number of new threads on MNL about leasing questions about how good is this deal, I think we will see a LOT of Leafs sold, maybe even 2000. April should be another interesting month as well. Lot of interest in the "S" and the lower lease prices. People are starting to say, "Hmmm, should I continue to spend $250-$300/mo in gas, or get a brand new Nissan Leaf. Decisions!"

I too thought the S would be the most sales/leases, but according to Nissan it's a small percentage. The most is the SV at 55% of sales for 2013.

 

[scottf200]

Given the number of new threads on MNL about leasing questions about how good is this deal, I think we will see a LOT of Leafs sold, maybe even 2000. April should be another interesting month as well. Lot of interest in the "S" and the lower lease prices. People are starting to say, "Hmmm, should I continue to spend $250-$300/mo in gas, or get a brand new Nissan Leaf. Decisions!"

I too thought the S would be the most sales/leases, but according to Nissan it's a small percentage. The most is the SV at 55% of sales for 2013.

I would have thought it'd be like 35% but I've read some are considering the "S" at loss leader (Wiki - A loss leader, or simply a leader,[1] is a product sold at a low price, at or below its market cost[2] to stimulate other sales of more profitable goods or services.)

 

[RegGuheert]

I too thought the S would be the most sales/leases, but according to Nissan it's a small percentage. The most is the SV at 55% of sales for 2013.

I'm not surprised by this since I think many have been waiting for the heat pump in the LEAF and SV is the cheapest way to get one.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

what time is sales announcement?

 

[Jay]

what time is sales announcement?

/now
(well, sorta-won't be on Nissan website still for another hour or so)

Nissan Shatters EV Sales Record In March 2013, Sells 2,236 LEAFs. Propels Industry To All-Time High
http://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-shatters-sales-record-in-march-2013-propels-industry-to-all-time-high/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TonyWilliams]

what time is sales announcement?

/now
(well, sorta-won't be on Nissan website still for another hour or so)

Nissan Shatters EV Sales Record In March 2013, Sells 2,236 LEAFs. Propels Industry To All-Time High
http://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-shatters-sales-record-in-march-2013-propels-industry-to-all-time-high/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you have a breakdown of 2012 vs 2013 model years? How about Rav4 EV?