2019 LEAF won’t start

[DaveinOlyWA]

Are you having 12 volt battery issues, Dave?

No. Have never had issues with any of my LEAFs.

I guess I can attribute it to

no timers
no telematics (after the 2011)
minimal sit around time.
garaged

I will say I did top off the battery on my 2011 after reports of dead batteries starting trickling in. AFAICT, it changed nothing. I would simply charge it a few hours every few weeks in Winter only but car always garaged so never saw anything below mid 40's with mid 50's being the medium. My "in car"resting voltage after roughly 16ish hours didn't really change. It was always between 12.15 and 12.25 volts. Summer seemed to be about a 10th higher.

And of course there is the "wiper" phenomena which I don't really subscribe to but it is the Pacific Northwest.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It was always between 12.15 and 12.25 volts.

That's low - in the 50%-65% range. You have been skating just above 12 volt battery problems. My 2013's 12 volt battery, after I started charging it regularly, read in the 12.5 volt area, which is still a little bit low. Yours should be reading at least that.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

It was always between 12.15 and 12.25 volts.

That's low - in the 50%-65% range. You have been skating just above 12 volt battery problems. My 2013's 12 volt battery, after I started charging it regularly, read in the 12.5 volt area, which is still a little bit low. Yours should be reading at least that.

Well, my regular was rather irregular. I wanted to do at least a 2 hour boost every other week but sometimes it was a month before I got around to it. I think the garage thing helped the most as most people I saw with dead batteries parked outside. Even in the mild winters we have here, it was still enough to kill off a few here and there. It did rise into the 12.3's during Summer. Now the times I went 16 hours between driving was actually quite rare. It was closer to the standard 12 or so. But I also had several stints of 8 days or more including 22 days once while on vacation the car sat unused and had no issues. I even left the dongle in a few times. It wasn't my intention but simply forgot to take it out...

I just went out and checked the car and its 12.28 volts and I just drove it less than 2 hours ago.

 

[LeftieBiker]

That's still only about 65% charged, which is bad for a starting battery and low even for a deep cycle, as a constant SOC. I guess I'd better check mine this weekend. They may have only improved the charging algorithm enough to keep the batteries alive - but low on charge.

 

[powersurge]

That's still only about 65% charged, which is bad for a starting battery and low even for a deep cycle, as a constant SOC. I guess I'd better check mine this weekend. They may have only improved the charging algorithm enough to keep the batteries alive - but low on charge.

I agree Dave. A fully charged battery is in the 12.5 to 12.7 range. I learned this when I got into experimenting with solar panels...

Please look at this site...

https://www.emarineinc.com/Marine-Batteries-Maintenance-101


Here is an excerpt:

Voltage meters are also used to indicate battery state of charge. Digital voltmeters provide the accuracy to read the voltage in hundredths and are relatively inexpensive and easy to use. The main problem with relying on voltage reading is the high degree of battery voltage variation through out the day. Battery voltage reacts highly to charging and discharging. As a battery is charged the indicated voltage increases and, as discharging occurs, the indicated voltage decreases. With experience, one can accurately determine state of charge using a voltmeter.
Battery State Of Charge Reference Chart
Percentage of Charge 12 Volt Battery 24 Volt Battery Specific Gravity
100 12.70 25.40 1.265
95 12.64 25.25 1.257
90 12.58 25.16 1.249
85 12.52 25.04 1.241
80 12.46 24.92 1.233
75 12.40 24.80 1.225
70 12.36 24.72 1.218
65 12.32 24.64 1.211
60 12.28 24.56 1.204
55 12.24 24.48 1.197
50 12.20 24.40 1.190
45 12.16 24.32 1.183
40 12.12 24.24 1.176
35 12.08 24.16 1.169
30 12.04 24.08 1.162
25 12.00 24.00 1.155
20 11.98 23.96 1.148
15 11.96 23.92 1.141
10 11.94 23.88 1.134
5 11.92 23.84 1.127
Discharged 11.90 23.80 1.120


Monitoring and Maintenance

Victron BMV-712 Smart Battery MonitorThe battery voltage should be kept at or above a 50% state of charge for maximum battery life. Keep the battery's electrolyte level to the indicated level and never let the plates be exposed above the electrolyte. Use only distilled water - not tap water, when refilling the batteries. Water is the only element used by your battery. You should never have to add acid to your battery. Do not overfill or fill when the batteries are discharged. Over-watering dilutes the acid excessively and electrolyte will be expelled when charging.

 

[nlspace]

+1, great information on that website, thanks for sharing.

Be sure to check the output holding voltage of any float chargger before leaving it hooked up. i have found a wide range of voltage across several brands including some way too high (14.9V) which will cause electrolyte to be consumed and damage a battery if the level drops below the plates. Also some too low(12.9-13.1) which won't desulfate. The cheaper units use a resistor divider network or a zener diode to set the output, so these can be adjusted to fine tune as desired.

Some of the more expensive units supposedly have multilevel outputs, but i haven't been able to verify the circuitry since they have ground the part numbers off of the ICs. Slows me down when they do that, PIA.

If, however, the battery is left in a partial state of discharge for as short as 3 days, the lead sulfate material will begin to harden and crystallize, forming a permanent insulating barrier.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I see light! Just checked the voltage (about 6:15 AM) and it was 12.54! Must have just been recently boosted.

I get that vampire draws are a concern but I am not understanding why the boosting modes are so short? What most don't understand is the DC system's 13.1 volts is NOT high enough to charge the battery at the same time. So only the short 14.4 volt boosts are doing anything for it.

I tried to put LEAF Spy on the car overnight to see if I could capture enough data to determine the algorithm used for the 12 volt charging but keeping LS awake was a problem. Leaving the car on would likely alter the values.

I was lucky enough to be in the garage ONE time on my 2016 when it kicked into a charge cycle but it lasted only 6 minutes. Nowhere near enough time to gain any significant capacity.

FYI; checked again at 6:40 AM now 12.37 volts.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Be sure to check the output holding voltage of any float chargger before leaving it hooked up. i have found a wide range of voltage across several brands including some way too high (14.9V) which will cause electrolyte to be consumed and damage a battery if the level drops below the plates. Also some too low(12.9-13.1) which won't desulfate. The cheaper units use a resistor divider network or a zener diode to set the output, so these can be adjusted to fine tune as desired.

The Battery tender JR worked well for me, although it isn't much of a charger if you have to replace a lot of AHs - it's mainly a maintainer. I wouldn't use it on an AGM battery though - they don't seem to want to turn off bulk charging mode when connected to an AGM, for some reason.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I tested my 2018's accessory battery voltage this evening, and it was 12.26. Clearly Nissan just applied a small bandaid to a medium sized wound, and we should be topping off our 12 volt batteries at least occasionally, right through at least the 2018 models. What clowns.


I'll move these posts to a more appropriate topic later, I think.

 

[Lothsahn]

I've had my 2011 Leaf for 1.5 years now and haven't had any 12V battery misbehavior after buying it, although the resting voltage has been low when I check it with a multi-meter. It sat on the lot for a month and was bounced from dealer to dealer for months. It threw an angle sensor diagnostic code right before I bought it (which got me $500 off the price!) . The angle sensor code has not returned except when I ran the battery dead.

The battery looks like the OEM battery based on pictures, but I don't know if it's ever been replaced. I certainly haven't replaced mine.

I did leave it plugged in not charging for 3 days and the battery was dead. Charged it up and everything's been fine. I've disconnected the telematics, I drive it nearly every day, store in a climate controlled garage, and I use L1 charging only. I suspect these items in conjunction has been helpful.

I just got a battery maintainer for my birthday, so I will be using that going forward. I really suspect that how fast the batteries die depend on how the car is used. It's a shame, too, because with the right charging behavior, this could be completely a non-issue. The hood is cooler than an ICE, the battery draw is minimal (no need for high amperage draws), and you have a main battery pack to keep it topped off. You'd think this would be a big enough reliability problem to fix in firmware.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I've had my 2011 Leaf for 1.5 years now and haven't had any 12V battery misbehavior after buying it, although the resting voltage has been low when I check it with a multi-meter. It sat on the lot for a month and was bounced from dealer to dealer for months. It threw an angle sensor diagnostic code right before I bought it (which got me $500 off the price!) . The angle sensor code has not returned except when I ran the battery dead.

The battery looks like the OEM battery based on pictures, but I don't know if it's ever been replaced. I certainly haven't replaced mine.

I did leave it plugged in not charging for 3 days and the battery was dead. Charged it up and everything's been fine. I've disconnected the telematics, I drive it nearly every day, store in a climate controlled garage, and I use L1 charging only. I suspect these items in conjunction has been helpful.

I just got a battery maintainer for my birthday, so I will be using that going forward. I really suspect that how fast the batteries die depend on how the car is used. It's a shame, too, because with the right charging behavior, this could be completely a non-issue. The hood is cooler than an ICE, the battery draw is minimal (no need for high amperage draws), and you have a main battery pack to keep it topped off. You'd think this would be a big enough reliability problem to fix in firmware.

If that were true, this topic would not exist.

 

[Lothsahn]

I've had my 2011 Leaf for 1.5 years now and haven't had any 12V battery misbehavior after buying it, although the resting voltage has been low when I check it with a multi-meter. It sat on the lot for a month and was bounced from dealer to dealer for months. It threw an angle sensor diagnostic code right before I bought it (which got me $500 off the price!) . The angle sensor code has not returned except when I ran the battery dead.

The battery looks like the OEM battery based on pictures, but I don't know if it's ever been replaced. I certainly haven't replaced mine.

I did leave it plugged in not charging for 3 days and the battery was dead. Charged it up and everything's been fine. I've disconnected the telematics, I drive it nearly every day, store in a climate controlled garage, and I use L1 charging only. I suspect these items in conjunction has been helpful.

I just got a battery maintainer for my birthday, so I will be using that going forward. I really suspect that how fast the batteries die depend on how the car is used. It's a shame, too, because with the right charging behavior, this could be completely a non-issue. The hood is cooler than an ICE, the battery draw is minimal (no need for high amperage draws), and you have a main battery pack to keep it topped off. You'd think this would be a big enough reliability problem to fix in firmware.

If that were true, this topic would not exist.

I suspect you misread what I wrote. I wrote that it *could be* completely a non-issue. If I was a product owner at Nissan, this would be one of the first things I'd fix... and there'd be a firmware update to fix it on all existing model years.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Nissan has failed to fix so many things like this, the 80% charge limit's absence, the passenger side seat belt coupling tab banging on the window, that it seems they don't like criticism to the point where they deliberately don't fix problems pointed out to them.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I've had my 2011 Leaf for 1.5 years now and haven't had any 12V battery misbehavior after buying it, although the resting voltage has been low when I check it with a multi-meter. It sat on the lot for a month and was bounced from dealer to dealer for months. It threw an angle sensor diagnostic code right before I bought it (which got me $500 off the price!) . The angle sensor code has not returned except when I ran the battery dead.

The battery looks like the OEM battery based on pictures, but I don't know if it's ever been replaced. I certainly haven't replaced mine.

I did leave it plugged in not charging for 3 days and the battery was dead. Charged it up and everything's been fine. I've disconnected the telematics, I drive it nearly every day, store in a climate controlled garage, and I use L1 charging only. I suspect these items in conjunction has been helpful.

I just got a battery maintainer for my birthday, so I will be using that going forward. I really suspect that how fast the batteries die depend on how the car is used. It's a shame, too, because with the right charging behavior, this could be completely a non-issue. The hood is cooler than an ICE, the battery draw is minimal (no need for high amperage draws), and you have a main battery pack to keep it topped off. You'd think this would be a big enough reliability problem to fix in firmware.

If that were true, this topic would not exist.

I suspect you misread what I wrote. I wrote that it *could be* completely a non-issue. If I was a product owner at Nissan, this would be one of the first things I'd fix... and there'd be a firmware update to fix it on all existing model years.

Right, I gotcha. My statement is not a rebuttal. The only reason we are having these issues is because the pack is being charged on a timed schedule with no regard to charge level. The battery is never fully charged in any situation. It is a near perfect algorithm for charging Li. Maybe Nissan doesn't realize its Lead?

 

[chrisgray]

I am beginning to think there is a systemic issue with the Accessories Battery (12VDC) system on the Nissan Leaf 2019 model. We have ~36k km on our vehicle and we have had to jump start the vehicle twice now. There is some condition with the Accessories system where the battery gets drained. Very surprising with all the energy management features in the vehicle that it would allow the car to fail rather than warn or shut off the accessories that are draining the battery. Since the failure mode is that the vehicle is inoperable, and the fix is a jump start, there should be a "back door" method to use the Energy from the LION main battery to charge the Accessories Battery so you can at least start the vehicle.

It's embarrassing to have to get a gas car to come give you a jump start. Dealer has looked at this, but they don't have the expertise to diagnosis the root cause (mechanics are use to ICE vehicles and don't have adequate training to diagnosis this issue).

I am not sure what to do as the reliability of the vehicle is now questioned every time we take the vehicle out. My hope is that we can sell the vehicle and purchase a different brand that does not have this failure mode built into the vehicle design.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I am not sure what to do as the reliability of the vehicle is now questioned every time we take the vehicle out. My hope is that we can sell the vehicle and purchase a different brand that does not have this failure mode built into the vehicle design.

A few Leafs have a hidden, substantial "vampire drain" that renders them unreliable. It sounds, though, like yours is one of many with a smaller problem - one that is usually fixed by installing an AGM type accessory battery (or a lithium battery), type 51R (the R must be there) and fully charging said AGM battery either right before or right after installation. I suggest you try that before selling the car. AGM batteries seem to work much better with the Leaf's charging algorithms. They don't fail quickly if run at ~80% charge, and they usually provide more usable capacity that lets them "wait" for those infrequent opportunities to charge more fully.

 

[Learjet]

Once your 12 volt battery goes "dead" it needs to be changed. You may charge it back up but it will never be the same again...it is permanently degraded or damaged. Just a fact of lead acid battery types. That may be why you had additional problems.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I am beginning to think there is a systemic issue with the Accessories Battery (12VDC) system on the Nissan Leaf 2019 model. We have ~36k km on our vehicle and we have had to jump start the vehicle twice now. There is some condition with the Accessories system where the battery gets drained. Very surprising with all the energy management features in the vehicle that it would allow the car to fail rather than warn or shut off the accessories that are draining the battery. Since the failure mode is that the vehicle is inoperable, and the fix is a jump start, there should be a "back door" method to use the Energy from the LION main battery to charge the Accessories Battery so you can at least start the vehicle.

It's embarrassing to have to get a gas car to come give you a jump start. Dealer has looked at this, but they don't have the expertise to diagnosis the root cause (mechanics are use to ICE vehicles and don't have adequate training to diagnosis this issue).

I am not sure what to do as the reliability of the vehicle is now questioned every time we take the vehicle out. My hope is that we can sell the vehicle and purchase a different brand that does not have this failure mode built into the vehicle design.

The "systemic" issue is well documented with every LEAF since day one. Despite that, Nissan has failed to adequately address the issue. The "backdoor" idea circumvents the safety mechanisms in the system that isolates the traction battery in case of emergency.

The only viable option at this time is replacing the battery with a chemistry that tolerates deeper discharges. For the rest of us (or cheapskates like me) its all about doing what we can to extend the battery's life.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2021/04/charge-your-leaf-every-day.html

 

[esmejoy]

Newbie here adding on to this older dead battery thread. I bought used 2021 Leaf SV Plus 2 months ago and so far am loving it. Car from LA area prior to me - I live in SF Bay Area, no extreme weather.

I've read thru enough to say that I *think* I understand the following:

- dead battery can be immediately addressed by jumpstart and then either driving or plug-in charging or just idling

Is that correct?

I think what happened to me is I maybe left the flashers on for about 4h yesterday and came back to completely dead 12v battery.

Still have questions:

1) Is it "normal" that 4h with flashers on would completely drain 12v battery, or is this a sign of either poor battery health - or maybe something else being left on?

2) Without getting too technical/expensive - is there something else I really need to do at this point proactively? Get the battery checked? Buy some kind of trickle charger?

TIA!

 

[LeftieBiker]

- dead battery can be immediately addressed by jumpstart and then either driving or plug-in charging or just idling

Plugging in won't do a good job of charging the battery, nor will just running the car. The latter may charge it well enough to drive it, but it's best to recharge a drained battery fully with an external charger if possible. The same goes for installing a new 12 volt battery - charge it fully first. Unfortunately, the Leaf comes with a small lead-acid starting battery, and it has mediocre (at best) capacity. The Leaf does much better with an AGM type lead battery, or one of the new (expensive) lithium iron (LiFePo4) car batteries.