24kWh - Will it be enough?

[CuriousProspective]

Hi guys, I've been lurking on this forum for a while now. Hoping some of you might be able to provide some wisdom.

I'm interested in getting a 24kWh leaf for commuting, but I'm worried about winter range even if I find one with a healthy pack.

My commute is 60km(37mi) round trip, with a fairly even mix of 100kmh (62mph) highway, ~20kmh(~10mph) stop and go gridlock, and 60kmh(35mph) city driving. I live near Toronto, Canada, our winters usually dont ever drop much below -10°C or -15°C (15°F to 5°F) during my commuting times. Only once in the last 5 years have I had to commute through snow on any un-plowed roads, though sometimes there is a bit slush to push through.

Has anyone here with a 24kWh or 30kWh leaf done winter commuting at a similar range to this? Ideally I'd like another 5 or 10mi on top as a buffer or if i need to make a stop along my commute.

Additionally I'd be parking and charging this leaf exclusively outside. Would you expect this to cause battery degradation charging overnights?

 

[jjeff]

It all depends on how healthy(how many health bars) the Leaf has but even when new my '13 Leaf only had about a 40-mile range in temps near 0F, so you'd have no buffer. At this point probably most older Leafs will only have 10 bars and might not even make your 37 miles before dying in very cold temps and with slush on the roads.
Charging outside in the cold is no problem and is actually good for the battery, warming it up slightly. I would NOT suggest anything older than mid '13 and for sure not '12 and older which had a rather crummy energy hog heater.
I haven't owned a 30 kWh Leaf but if in good shape it might meet your requirements even if a bit degraded as almost all will be now but maybe someone else can give you ideas on those.
Oh and how do you plan on charging? If just with a 120v EVSE I wouldn't really suggest any full EV as depending on how long you could plug it in between uses it may not fully charge back up. In this case maybe look for a PHEV but note quite a few PHEVs don't really heat in cold single-digit temps but rather rely on the ICE for heat. In this case you might want to run in EV but the temps will force the ICE to kick in. If you can fit in one an older Chevy Volt may be a good choice as I believe they had around 40 mile range and with a Volt if you run out of charge the ICE will kick in and you won't be stranded.

 

[Stanton]

I'm interested in getting a 24kWh leaf for commuting, but I'm worried about winter range even if I find one with a healthy pack.

My commute is 60km(37mi) round trip, with a fairly even mix of 100kmh (62mph) highway

Has anyone here with a 24kWh or 30kWh leaf done winter commuting

Sorry to "snow on your parade"...but NO.
The biggest range killer is driving on the highway in the cold (and that's without even using the heater).

 

[Araknai]

I live in Minneapolis; a good deal colder than Toronto and I think you'll be fine. My 2015 10 bar was getting 45mi range during the -15F(-26C) days in January. I was not using the heater on those days (or any days as I set up a diesel heater in mine). My commute is 80% freeway, I just keep it 65mph and under most of the time.
Most of the rest of the winter I was getting 55-60mi per charge and I get 70mi per charge in the summer.

Before anyone jumps on the diesel heater; 10L lasts me the winter and using diesel for cabin heat is actually lower carbon than using thermal power plant grid power to charge a battery that will then become heat again..Toronto probably is an exception with all the hydro power in the area.

 

[knightmb]

Hi guys, I've been lurking on this forum for a while now. Hoping some of you might be able to provide some wisdom.

I'm interested in getting a 24kWh leaf for commuting, but I'm worried about winter range even if I find one with a healthy pack.

My commute is 60km(37mi) round trip, with a fairly even mix of 100kmh (62mph) highway, ~20kmh(~10mph) stop and go gridlock, and 60kmh(35mph) city driving. I live near Toronto, Canada, our winters usually dont ever drop much below -10°C or -15°C (15°F to 5°F) during my commuting times. Only once in the last 5 years have I had to commute through snow on any un-plowed roads, though sometimes there is a bit slush to push through.

Has anyone here with a 24kWh or 30kWh leaf done winter commuting at a similar range to this? Ideally I'd like another 5 or 10mi on top as a buffer or if i need to make a stop along my commute.

Additionally I'd be parking and charging this leaf exclusively outside. Would you expect this to cause battery degradation charging overnights?

So, it's roughly 18.5 miles each way. You are going to need LeafSpy to check any Leaf that you want to purchase. First to verify what its actual capacity is (the bars are too general, but a first look at least) and second to make sure the battery does not have any weak cells. Weak cells will strand you in cold weather, no matter how strong the neighbors are or how many bars it shows on the dash. If your work place has charging, that makes life better. If you have easy access home charging, even better because you can pre-heat your Leaf before heading off to work, further saving battery power.

It's possible in a 24 kWh Leaf, but you'll be limited to no earlier than the 2015 year models with the SV or SL trim to have the heat pump to help with power savings along with a battery that is at least 10 bars or better, no weak cell issues, etc. Sure, you could make it with less, but then you'll either be driving with no heat and speeds under 50 mph to conserve power and not much left for a buffer if you can't charge while at work to make it all in one charge.

 

[CuriousProspective]

Thanks everyone for all the input! Seems like a 24kWh might be a bit too optimistic for my use case, even with a heat pump/preheating/alternative heat source. It seems potentially doable, but just on the edge, so I think I'll pass. That's too bad, the used prices are looking pretty appealing lately, and I could save around $1000 a year in gas.

At least I won't be waiting hours for a tow truck on the stormiest coldest winter day just to get home!

Maybe I'll keep an eye out for a deal on a healthy 30kWh or a Chevy Volt, though they both seem to be holding value on the used market. Might be a few more years until I can see a reasonable payback period!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

If the car was new, I'd say no problems. Use the 80% charge setting and you will be good for several years but the 24 kwh hasn't been made for 8 years so its likely to have anywhere from 50 to 75% of it original range left which is still doable but will be cutting it close and you won't have several years of use.

Your post is rather incomplete so you will not get many useful answers because of it. there is obviously a budget here. What is your view on public charging? Do you have 240 charging (120 "can't" cover your needs) available or at least the capabiltity?

 

[MikeinPA]

My Leafs do not like pushing snow! Really hurts the range. Good snow car though as long as the tires are grippy and you dont try any drifting. Having 100% traction control at all times is amazing.

You are essentially proposing to do 1 full battery cycle a day. 1000 cycles is a ballpark idea of how many times an EV battery should cycle. So this may work for a while, but you will be wearing the 24 kwh battery down steadily.